Ken Whisenhunt is the Problem, NOT Ruston Webster

[imemtitan]

I'd certainly rather get rid of both than neither.  But this mess is Whisenhunt's.  And Webster hired an in-demand coach.  The Browns and Lions were also highly interested.

More evidence that he probably wasn't a great hire. If you are fighting the Browns and Lions for someone might need to step back and re-evaluate.

As most of you know I've been one of Ken Whisenhunt's biggest supporters on this board since the day he was fired.  I even said in the middle of 2013 that he's the one guy I'd absolutely fire Mike Munchak for if he became available.  Well my support of him is gone.  I am done with him.  Everyone warned us that he was rigid and that it was his way or the highway.  I figured that he had easy excuses in Arizona as he had absolutely nothing at QB and actually did a good job in not drafting Jake Locker and Blaine Gabbert in 2011 despite the glaring hole.  And I do think that he has an elite knowledge of QB's and can develop a QB as well as almost anyone.  However, that is secondary to what he is in Nashville to do: coach the Tennessee Titans.

 

What in his history makes you think that? The Steelers were a defensive team that relied on the running game and Roethlisberger was a game manager when Whisenhunt was there.  Roethlesberger didn't really take off as an elite QB till Arians started working with him.  Arizona he only had success with Warner who had already proven he could play at an elite level.  Every other QB he worked with there never developed or got injured (shocker).  So he seems to have a claim to fame of resurrecting Rivers career in San Diego, except Rivers had played at a high level long before Whisenhunt ever got there, so not sure you can give Whisenhunt any credit for that or Rivers just got back to form after a down year prior to Whisenhunt showing up.  There is just nothing in Whisenhunt's history that tells me he has any ability to develop a QB and if anything it is the exact opposite, if he doesn't have a proven guy he ends up making them worse. 

[scine09]

What in his history makes you think that? The Steelers were a defensive team that relied on the running game and Roethlisberger was a game manager when Whisenhunt was there.  Roethlesberger didn't really take off as an elite QB till Arians started working with him.  Arizona he only had success with Warner who had already proven he could play at an elite level.  Every other QB he worked with there never developed or got injured (shocker).  So he seems to have a claim to fame of resurrecting Rivers career in San Diego, except Rivers had played at a high level long before Whisenhunt ever got there, so not sure you can give Whisenhunt any credit for that or Rivers just got back to form after a down year prior to Whisenhunt showing up.  There is just nothing in Whisenhunt's history that tells me he has any ability to develop a QB and if anything it is the exact opposite, if he doesn't have a proven guy he ends up making them worse. 

More of a gut feeling than anything else on him developing QB's.  I think he knows what it takes to succeed at the position.

I'd want him as the QB coach.  Maybe he and McNulty can change jobs.

[THE_TITAN]

I'd certainly rather get rid of both than neither.  But this mess is Whisenhunt's.  And Webster hired an in-demand coach.  The Browns and Lions were also highly interested.

What's a noticeable similarity between those two organisations and ours? They are poorly run and managed. For this franchise to become a winner and not a perennial loser there needs to be a culture change. Ultimately that comes from the top, we currently have no clear leader in the ownership group, no team President, a failing GM, and a failing Head Coach. Clearly there needs to be drastic alterations to that leadership group for there to be any tangible change in this franchise's performance. 

[TitanDuckFan]

I think Whis has made some poor assistant choices, but his biggest problem is play calls IYAM.  The guy regularly outsmarts himself with idiot calls, and he even admits it.

Some fairly successful coordinators made similar bonehead moves as HCoaches.  Buddy Ryan, Mariucci, and even (Jim) Harbaugh come to mind.

[abenjami]

Not this bad.  And Munchak wasn't coaching the o-line.  That was Bruce Matthews who Bostad makes look like a Hall of Fame coach.

Regardless you'd never see these ridiculous one on one's with rookies against all pros.

Munchak was still the HC.  That's what Whiz is now.  You can certainly blame Whiz for not giving the OL help with protections but it makes no sense to say it's his fault for not coaching them up and then say Munchak gets a pass.

[ChesterCopperpot1]

Couldn't the argument be taken the other way as well? If Webster had provided Whiz with a more talented roster his schemes work.

Personally, I see huge issues with Webster. Just look at his second round draft picks. Zach Brown, Justin Hunter, Bishop Sankey, DGB. I mean aside from DGB, who could very well be another bust, these guys are terrible.

If I had to choose one, and assuming Whiz doesn't get Mariota killed, I'd rather have Whiz in 2016 than go through another draft with Webster at the helm.

Seriously though, I'm all aboard for firing them both at this point.

the 2nd round has been a nuclear wasteland dating back before Webster. Aside from Roos and Rolle, we haven't drafted a player in the 2nd round worth a damn. 

Theyre both issues. Both work together to put together a roster. 

[OILERMAN]

Munchak was still the HC.  That's what Whiz is now.  You can certainly blame Whiz for not giving the OL help with protections but it makes no sense to say it's his fault for not coaching them up and then say Munchak gets a pass.

Munchak also publicly said he was going to give the OL a hands on approach

[IsntLifeFunny]

You can't do much worse than hiring the guy who goes 3-18. His hits are far fewer than his misses. His results are terrible, because as the GM his results are directly tied to how his coaches perform. Neither have, and the one he's hand picked is currently the laughing stock of the NFL. He has to go, but I can't see a situation where it all plays smoothly unless Underwood stays aboard, or the search for a new president is accelerated. 

[scine09]

Munchak was still the HC.  That's what Whiz is now.  You can certainly blame Whiz for not giving the OL help with protections but it makes no sense to say it's his fault for not coaching them up and then say Munchak gets a pass.

You're right.

Regardless though I don't think you'd ever see a rookie tackle going one on one with an all pro if Munchak had anything to do with it.

[oldschool]

More evidence that he probably wasn't a great hire. If you are fighting the Browns and Lions for someone might need to step back and re-evaluate.

What in his history makes you think that? The Steelers were a defensive team that relied on the running game and Roethlisberger was a game manager when Whisenhunt was there.  Roethlesberger didn't really take off as an elite QB till Arians started working with him.  Arizona he only had success with Warner who had already proven he could play at an elite level.  Every other QB he worked with there never developed or got injured (shocker).  So he seems to have a claim to fame of resurrecting Rivers career in San Diego, except Rivers had played at a high level long before Whisenhunt ever got there, so not sure you can give Whisenhunt any credit for that or Rivers just got back to form after a down year prior to Whisenhunt showing up.  There is just nothing in Whisenhunt's history that tells me he has any ability to develop a QB and if anything it is the exact opposite, if he doesn't have a proven guy he ends up making them worse. 

preach! The QB Whisperer shit needs to stop.

[EagleEye]

  

When you have a rookie right tackle going against an all pro it might be a good idea to utilize the tight ends that your general manager gave you in the offseason mainly for that exact purpose.

 

When you run the same exact play three different times and the other team is expecting that play maybe it's time to change the play and use your highly mobile QB to get two stinking yards.  When you throw screen pass after screen pass maybe it's time to do something else.  When you run a draw play half the time that Dexter McCluster is next to Mariota in shotgun maybe it's time to stop running that play.  Like I said, I'm sure these plays would be effective in a vacuum.  But the other team actually makes adjustments, something that Whisenhunt doesn't seem to be able to grasp.

Why is it that none of the receivers can learn the playbook while other teams don't have the same issue?  Are the other teams WR's smarter? Highly unlikely.  Maybe it's time to trim the playbook to make it easier for your players.  We know you're a smart guy and can learn the plays and if you were playing probably wouldn't have an issue with them.  Most of these guys are dumb as bricks and you need to coach knowing that.

 If Jim Harbaugh was the coach in Tennessee instead of at Michigan, with the exact same roster that Whisenhunt has, these guys would be 3-2 at worst and probably 4-1.    T

Well put!

[Jas]

Webster has drafted a franchise LT, two possible franchise QBs, and one of the best DE/DT in the game, plus signed the best TE the team has had in years, maybe ever.  

 

He has his misses, but it isn't impossible to defend him.

I don't really disagree with those 4 positions.  However, that's 4 positions in 5 years.  How many more years does he need to fill out the rest of the roster?

However, while Lewan looks like a franchise LT and has flashed those skills, he is far from it at this point in his career.  You would have to label him a possible franchise LT just like the QBs.

 

[Jas]

Just because Whisenhunt is awful, it does not in any way absolve Webster from being awful as well.

[freakingeek]

The fact that Webster can't build a solid roster through the draft is why he has to try and fill holes with whatever free agents happen to be available that year for that position so we wind up with guys like Oher and damaged goods like Levitre and Hutchinson and end up having to overpay. I do think Levitre's problem was more scheme and injuries. 

When the Titans were doing well we had an online of guys we drafted. Pillar, Matthews, Olsen, Long, Runyan, Stewart, Roos etc. when we played in the SuperBowl, 18 out of the 22 starters were drafted by the Titans.

[Face]

Scine is correct. I don't think he's trying to defend Webster as much as indict Whisenhunt. The simple fact is this was a tough, competitive team in 2013 that easily could've made the playoffs. Whisenhunt took over & the team has become one of the worst teams of the last decade or so. Guys like Wright & Hunter looked like young, exciting WR's. Now they're just frustrated & running wrong routes. When guys like Otto & Stingily had to play RT they were fine, QB's weren't getting killed. 

I have no doubt this team is at least 3-2 even if a guy like Horton is the HC. This man simply does not win, his record tells you that. Webster isn't a very good GM, he's made his fair share of mistakes. None, however, are even close to as damaging as hiring Ken Whisenhunt.