oldschool Posted Thursday at 07:05 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 07:05 PM 2 minutes ago, tgo said: So basically - all players are interchangeable now regardless of scheme in your opinion? nope but your example of Hendrickson was poor. and we are seeing more OLB/DE Tweeners play down in 4 man fronts because its about rushing the passer. Now some teams will prefer bigger 5T or OLBs that can set the EDGE so you still have allowance's for scheme. its just not tied to 43/34 any longer which was my point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted Thursday at 07:09 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 07:09 PM Just now, oldschool said: nope but your example of Hendrickson was poor. and we are seeing more OLB/DE Tweeners play down in 4 man fronts because its about rushing the passer. Now some teams will prefer bigger 5T or OLBs that can set the EDGE so you still have allowance's for scheme. its just not tied to 43/34 any longer which was my point. Ok, so the player example was poor and you don't like the 3-4/4-3 designation even for base defense. Feels very semantical. Maybe someone like Harold Landry would be a better example. As in, clearly he's a better fit in Vrabel's defense than he would be in say, Anarumo's defense or Saleh's defense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted Thursday at 09:19 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 09:19 PM On 11/10/2025 at 4:37 PM, scine09 said: I could see Tomlin going to the Giants if he was to leave Pittsburgh. The two franchises are very similar. Don't the Steelers and Giants ownership share some familial connections? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callidus Posted Thursday at 09:31 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 09:31 PM 4 hours ago, tgo said: I'm aware - and yet the base defense is played like 25-30% of the time and the personnel requirements, particularly at edge, can be much different. Particularly where coverage responsibilities come into play. And depending on what kind of coverage you major in, your corners will look quite different and have different skillsets. We know that Borgo has a prototype at Edge/CB - I just don't know for sure whether he will want the incoming scheme to mold to his personnel vision or whether he will be more willing to adapt his personnel vision to a new coaching staff if they prefer different play styles. Some players are versatile enough to play base downs in either front of course - others are not. Like for instance, you very likely would not draft a player like Arvell Reese high if you were running a 4-3 base or had a larger edge profile. Because with off ball LB value being as low as it is, his utility largely would be from non-edge positions as a tweener type player who weighs well under 250 lbs. The difference in interior guys is also prevalent. Some teams run smaller DTs in a 4-3 than the 2gap DEs in a 3-4. Simmons would flourish as an atracking piece in a 4-3, idk how much sweat fits into that scheme. A guy like SJD next to simmons makes more sense. oldschool 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted Thursday at 09:37 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 09:37 PM 1 minute ago, Callidus said: The difference in interior guys is also prevalent. Some teams run smaller DTs in a 4-3 than the 2gap DEs in a 3-4. Simmons would flourish as an atracking piece in a 4-3, idk how much sweat fits into that scheme. A guy like SJD next to simmons makes more sense. It kind of depends. With Sweat's quick feet off the snap, he may actually not be a bad gap shooting type in a 4-3 from a 1T or 2i alignment. But normally yes, run stopping nose tackle types are not suited for penetrating 4-3 DT roles. Simmons def could wreck offenses in a Schwartz-type gap penetrating defensive front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titansfan Posted Thursday at 09:53 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 09:53 PM 5 hours ago, tgo said: Random thought: Thinking ahead about the defense/personnel - Matt Nagy had a 3-4 base defense the whole time he was in Chicago, despite going through 3 different coordinators. I wonder if Borgonzi will be inclined to keep this Baltimore rendition of the 3-4 intact (lots of 3 safety looks of course, man coverage corners). He and Brinker have both continually had high praise for Wilson (doubtful he'll be retained of course, but a similar coordinator philosophically maybe - like Anthony Weaver). Someone like Saleh of course, or even Stefanski or Arthur Smith, have naturally been inclined toward 4-3 base defenses that function very different personnel-wise from this defense. With Saleh, his corners are going to be different than the corners Borgonzi has gone after thus far for example. And Oladejo is a very different fit at edge in a 4-3 base vs. OLB in a 3-4 base since you want Oladejo rushing from a two point stance generally. If I were Borgo and wanting to maximize guys like Sweat, Oladejo, Kevin Winston, Cedric Gray - I may be inclined toward a similar 3-4 defense. It's interesting that Zeigler was involved in the HC search with the Saints when they interviewed Weaver and then of course McKenzie had overlap with him at the Dolphins. Would a Matt Nagy/Anthony Weaver pairing be ideal for Borgonzi? Really the only thing this will affect is how they view/value Sweat. Does he become less of an everydown player and more situational. We are beginning to understand Borgonzi prefers big powerful edges so ostensibly they are more versatile between schemes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titansfan Posted Thursday at 09:55 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 09:55 PM 5 hours ago, tgo said: I'm aware - and yet the base defense is played like 25-30% of the time and the personnel requirements, particularly at edge, can be much different. Particularly where coverage responsibilities come into play. And depending on what kind of coverage you major in, your corners will look quite different and have different skillsets. We know that Borgo has a prototype at Edge/CB - I just don't know for sure whether he will want the incoming scheme to mold to his personnel vision or whether he will be more willing to adapt his personnel vision to a new coaching staff if they prefer different play styles. Some players are versatile enough to play base downs in either front of course - others are not. Like for instance, you very likely would not draft a player like Arvell Reese high if you were running a 4-3 base or had a larger edge profile. Because with off ball LB value being as low as it is, his utility largely would be from non-edge positions as a tweener type player who weighs well under 250 lbs. Reese would excel in a 4-3... they'd move him around Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted Thursday at 10:17 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 10:17 PM 20 minutes ago, titansfan said: Reese would excel in a 4-3... they'd move him around Yeah, well he's a tweener. Guy is an off ball linebacker who can rush from different alignments. Doesn't seem like the kind of player they'll be inclined to take with a high draft pick to me, regardless of which scheme they're moving forward with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRamrod Posted Thursday at 10:37 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 10:37 PM You all need to just accept they’re going to draft Keldric Faulk now Nash 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieTitanFan08 Posted Thursday at 10:56 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 10:56 PM 17 minutes ago, TeamRamrod said: You all need to just accept they’re going to draft Keldric Faulk now We are going to learn a lot more about Borgonzi this year and how rigid he is with his ideal prototypical measurements with these EDGE guys as Bain, Reese, Faulk are entirely different beasts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted Thursday at 11:21 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 11:21 PM 1 hour ago, Callidus said: The difference in interior guys is also prevalent. Some teams run smaller DTs in a 4-3 than the 2gap DEs in a 3-4. Simmons would flourish as an atracking piece in a 4-3, idk how much sweat fits into that scheme. A guy like SJD next to simmons makes more sense. Thats different though. when you go to a 4 man DL in the nickel, you will typically have someone playing 3T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted Friday at 12:34 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 12:34 AM 1 hour ago, AussieTitanFan08 said: We are going to learn a lot more about Borgonzi this year and how rigid he is with his ideal prototypical measurements with these EDGE guys as Bain, Reese, Faulk are entirely different beasts. Aaaah... so doubt is creeping into your thoughts about who/what Borgonzi really wants. Watch him trade down and draft Peter Woods and fuck everyone's minds 6 ways from Sunday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieTitanFan08 Posted Friday at 12:47 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 12:47 AM (edited) 14 minutes ago, NashvilleNinja said: Aaaah... so doubt is creeping into your thoughts about who/what Borgonzi really wants. Borgonzi has made it pretty clear what his "ideal" EDGE looks like but we simply don't have enough of a sample size to know how rigid he is to that exact prototype. This class is likely to give us a better idea of if/where he is willing to compromise. - Faulk meets all his outlined measurables (size/length/power/bulk) - Bain meets 2 of the 4 in (power/bulk) could be a TRex - Reese probably only meets 2.5 (length/power) he doesn't have bulk and borderline on size What is probably the most interesting thing is Borgonzi never rated speed as a priority for his EDGE guys. Edited Friday at 12:49 AM by AussieTitanFan08 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted Friday at 01:05 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 01:05 AM 2 minutes ago, AussieTitanFan08 said: Borgonzi has made it pretty clear what his "ideal" EDGE looks like but we simply don't have enough of a sample size to know how rigid he is to that exact prototype. This class is likely to give us a better idea of if/where he is willing to compromise. - Faulk meets all his outlined measurables (size/length/power/bulk) - Bain meets 2 of the 4 in (power/bulk) could be a TRex - Reese probably only meets 2.5 (length/power) he doesn't have bulk and borderline on size What is probably the most interesting thing is Borgonzi never rated speed as a priority for his EDGE guys. Me, doing my best @Pragidealist impression: Per chatGPT - ... Short answer: there are no public quotes where Mike Borgonzi literally says “I prefer big, physical edge rushers over fast, athletic ones.” But in just about every time he’s talked about edge players, he repeatedly emphasizes size, length, physicality, setting the edge, violence, and love of football much more than speed or bend. Here are the key, concrete examples I could find. --- 1. Overall philosophy (applies to edges too) Senior Bowl / Combine (ESPN) Talking about the kind of players he wants in the trenches, Borgonzi said: “We want big, physical players.” That was about offensive line prospects, but it’s a general roster-building philosophy that matches how he talks about edge defenders. Presser quote (via Jim Wyatt) “The teams that win in this league are the ones that control the line of scrimmage. We want big, physical and tough guys.” Again, not edge-specific, but it tells you what he values at the LOS: big, physical, tough — which lines up with the edges he’s chosen and signed. --- 2. Oluwafemi Oladejo (rookie EDGE) – prototype in his own words Borgonzi has talked about Oladejo a lot, and the wording is very consistent: Draft recap (Titans.com) Calls him “a tough, physical kid” who only recently moved to outside backer. Stresses that he “can set the edge”, is “physical”, “violent”, and that “the kid loves football.” Notes he’s about 260 pounds with 34-inch arms, with power and long arms, and will develop as a pass rusher. Follow-up pieces (SI / ClutchPoints / ESPN) repeat the same descriptors: “Tough, physical kid” who “can set the edge… is physical, is violent and… loves football”. ESPN adds that Borgonzi sees him as a tough, physical player with versatility and potential to be a do-it-all pass rusher. What this implies about his ideal EDGE: Big frame and length (260 lbs, 34" arms). Edge-setting vs the run is mentioned over and over. Pass-rush is framed as upside to be developed, not the only thing that matters. Personality traits: violent play style and loves football are called out explicitly. --- 3. Dre’Mont (bigger edge / rush backer) In a Titans.com piece on free-agency additions, Borgonzi describes Dre’Mont (used as a rush backer / bigger EDGE) this way: “Dre’Mont is a bigger edge guy that has versatility to play inside as well.” “He’s a rush backer for us in base, and he can do some interior rush.” So the edge prototype here is: Bigger edge body type, not a light, pure speed rusher. Inside–outside versatility (can kick inside to rush). Used as a rush backer in base, but still fits that “bigger edge” mold. Again, this leans toward size + versatility, not “undersized speed demon.” --- 4. Lorenzo Carter (veteran EDGE signing) Same article, on Carter: Borgonzi calls him “a big, longer guy on the edge” who “can set the edge in the run game” and has “continued to improve as a pass rusher.” The Reuters signing blurb underlines the profile: Carter is 6-5, 264 with a 4.50 forty, and the Titans liked his versatility as an edge defender. Again, what’s highlighted from Borgonzi’s side isn’t “he’s super explosive,” it’s: Big, long frame Can set the edge in the run game Versatile, with improving pass rush --- 5. What this all adds up to Putting his quotes together: He openly says “We want big, physical players” and “big, physical and tough guys” when talking about building the roster and controlling the line. Every time he gushes about an edge or edge-type player (Oladejo, Dre’Mont, Lorenzo Carter), he emphasizes: Big / bigger edge body types Length (long arms, long frame) Run defense and edge-setting Physical, violent play style Love of football and toughness Versatility (play off-ball, rush inside, drop, etc.) He does not publicly say “I prefer big, physical over fast, athletic.” But his language and his personnel choices strongly suggest that, if he has to choose, he leans toward: > Big, long, physical, edge-setting rushers who can still rush the passer, rather than smaller, purely speed-based guys. ............ But still... I wonder if he likes small speedsters... Pragidealist 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieTitanFan08 Posted Friday at 01:11 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 01:11 AM 1 minute ago, NashvilleNinja said: Me, doing my best @Pragidealist impression: Per chatGPT - ... Short answer: there are no public quotes where Mike Borgonzi literally says “I prefer big, physical edge rushers over fast, athletic ones.” But in just about every time he’s talked about edge players, he repeatedly emphasizes size, length, physicality, setting the edge, violence, and love of football much more than speed or bend. Here are the key, concrete examples I could find. --- 1. Overall philosophy (applies to edges too) Senior Bowl / Combine (ESPN) Talking about the kind of players he wants in the trenches, Borgonzi said: “We want big, physical players.” That was about offensive line prospects, but it’s a general roster-building philosophy that matches how he talks about edge defenders. Presser quote (via Jim Wyatt) “The teams that win in this league are the ones that control the line of scrimmage. We want big, physical and tough guys.” Again, not edge-specific, but it tells you what he values at the LOS: big, physical, tough — which lines up with the edges he’s chosen and signed. --- 2. Oluwafemi Oladejo (rookie EDGE) – prototype in his own words Borgonzi has talked about Oladejo a lot, and the wording is very consistent: Draft recap (Titans.com) Calls him “a tough, physical kid” who only recently moved to outside backer. Stresses that he “can set the edge”, is “physical”, “violent”, and that “the kid loves football.” Notes he’s about 260 pounds with 34-inch arms, with power and long arms, and will develop as a pass rusher. Follow-up pieces (SI / ClutchPoints / ESPN) repeat the same descriptors: “Tough, physical kid” who “can set the edge… is physical, is violent and… loves football”. ESPN adds that Borgonzi sees him as a tough, physical player with versatility and potential to be a do-it-all pass rusher. What this implies about his ideal EDGE: Big frame and length (260 lbs, 34" arms). Edge-setting vs the run is mentioned over and over. Pass-rush is framed as upside to be developed, not the only thing that matters. Personality traits: violent play style and loves football are called out explicitly. --- 3. Dre’Mont (bigger edge / rush backer) In a Titans.com piece on free-agency additions, Borgonzi describes Dre’Mont (used as a rush backer / bigger EDGE) this way: “Dre’Mont is a bigger edge guy that has versatility to play inside as well.” “He’s a rush backer for us in base, and he can do some interior rush.” So the edge prototype here is: Bigger edge body type, not a light, pure speed rusher. Inside–outside versatility (can kick inside to rush). Used as a rush backer in base, but still fits that “bigger edge” mold. Again, this leans toward size + versatility, not “undersized speed demon.” --- 4. Lorenzo Carter (veteran EDGE signing) Same article, on Carter: Borgonzi calls him “a big, longer guy on the edge” who “can set the edge in the run game” and has “continued to improve as a pass rusher.” The Reuters signing blurb underlines the profile: Carter is 6-5, 264 with a 4.50 forty, and the Titans liked his versatility as an edge defender. Again, what’s highlighted from Borgonzi’s side isn’t “he’s super explosive,” it’s: Big, long frame Can set the edge in the run game Versatile, with improving pass rush --- 5. What this all adds up to Putting his quotes together: He openly says “We want big, physical players” and “big, physical and tough guys” when talking about building the roster and controlling the line. Every time he gushes about an edge or edge-type player (Oladejo, Dre’Mont, Lorenzo Carter), he emphasizes: Big / bigger edge body types Length (long arms, long frame) Run defense and edge-setting Physical, violent play style Love of football and toughness Versatility (play off-ball, rush inside, drop, etc.) He does not publicly say “I prefer big, physical over fast, athletic.” But his language and his personnel choices strongly suggest that, if he has to choose, he leans toward: > Big, long, physical, edge-setting rushers who can still rush the passer, rather than smaller, purely speed-based guys. ............ But still... I wonder if he likes small speedsters... I posted it at the time (post draft/FA) when Borgonzi was directly asked during a podcast appearance when it looked like at that time that EDGE would be the #1 need in 2026 to describe his ideal EDGE and he was very clear about his priorities being play strength first, size and bulk, length. NashvilleNinja 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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