The Game of Thrones

[9 Nines]

 

[Jamalisms]

9 hours ago, oldschool said:

I'm not sure why but I'm surprised at the number of people who don't understand why Jon had to be exiled.

More the mechanics and rationale presented.

 

If Jon was free and said, again, "I don't want it, I never have" and he said he was going North because that's where he feels good and so he couldn't be used as a pawn to bring down Bran ... that's so much better than join the NW that exists for no reason so that we can placate Greyworm 

[Jamalisms]

One thing I haven't seen discussed much is that Jon didn't just love Dany and he didn't just want to honor his commitment. One of the biggest reasons he would struggle with that choice is that he's been on the other side.

 

Jon was the leader making unpopular choices. Not just as King in the North when he was frustrated by Sansa & others after he knelt but, more importantly, Jon was the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. He made unpopular decisions he thought were right. And he was killed for it.

 

By killing Dany, Jon became Alliser Thorne. He became Olly.

 

It's the ultimate reversal of fate and dramatic juxtaposition.

[9 Nines]

have not changed it yet. 

Edited May 22, 2019 by 9 Nines

[Starkiller]

 

16 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

More the mechanics and rationale presented.

 

If Jon was free and said, again, "I don't want it, I never have" and he said he was going North because that's where he feels good and so he couldn't be used as a pawn to bring down Bran ... that's so much better than join the NW that exists for no reason so that we can placate Greyworm 

 

12 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

One thing I haven't seen discussed much is that Jon didn't just love Dany and he didn't just want to honor his commitment. One of the biggest reasons he would struggle with that choice is that he's been on the other side.

 

Jon was the leader making unpopular choices. Not just as King in the North when he was frustrated by Sansa & others after he knelt but, more importantly, Jon was the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. He made unpopular decisions he thought were right. And he was killed for it.

 

By killing Dany, Jon became Alliser Thorne. He became Olly.

 

It's the ultimate reversal of fate and dramatic juxtaposition.

Jon wasn’t exactly given much of an option. Greyworm wanted to execute him and refused to let them just pardon Jon. They basically had to make a deal to save Jon's life. And Jon had to accept it. Greyworm at least took what he saw as a life sentence instead of a pardon.

 

No, Jon wasn’t Olly or Ser Allsier. Jon was Ned. He did what honor demanded. He put aside his love for Dany to save the realm. 

 

Also, he made the exact same choice Ned did in season 1. Sitting in the black cells, Ned refused to ignore his honor and make a confession. But when Varys told him that it wasn’t just his honor on the line, it was the lives of his girls he agreed to confess. Jon wasn’t willing to even consider killing Dany at Tyrion's request until he pointed out to Jon that Dany would kill Sansa and Arya, too. And he agreed to join the Nights Watch.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Starkiller

[Jamalisms]

Lol. No.

 

Alliser Thorne and others thought they were saving the realm and innocents by betraying their vows and killing their leader. Especially Olly, who loved / respected Jon.

[Jamalisms]

Greyworm let Tyrion become Hand with no fight. There's no reason to think Jon had to go North. And, even then, Greyworm left immediately. He didn't have to continue North after about five minutes of walking past Greyworm.

 

And that's only addressing what would be consistent with what was presented in the scene they chose to write. In reality, they didn't have to choose to write it that way. That could have easily gone another way that had better symbolism and presentation without the wonky Greyworm BS and certainly without having the NW continue existing for no reason, which they acknowledged and they glossed over out of convenience.

 

What's a better reason for Jon exile north?

 

A. Greyworm demanded he join an order that had no reason to exist, then left, rendering it unenforceable, and they made him go anyway.

 

B. He didn't want it, Targaryens and lines of succession aren't desired, he belongs in the North and he would need to be away so as not to be used as a pawn in future uprisings?

[Starkiller]

5 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

Lol. No.

 

Alliser Thorne and others thought they were saving the realm and innocents by betraying their vows and killing their leader. Especially Olly, who loved / respected Jon.

Ser Alliser fought for the Mad King during Robert's Rebellion and accepted exile over death. Not the same thing. 

 

Olly, Ser Alliser, and the others stabbed Jon because they disagreed with Jon saving the wildlings, not for some honorable notion of saving the realm. They betrayed their Nights Watch vows and the original duty of the Nights Watch, which was to protect the realms of men from the Others.

 

Jon was stopping a tyrant who was bent on killing anyone standing in her way. Those traitors were doing no such thing.

[Jamalisms]

Just now, Starkiller said:

Olly, Ser Alliser, and the others stabbed Jon because they disagreed with Jon saving the wildlings, not for some honorable notion of saving the realm. They betrayed their Nights Watch vows and the original duty of the Nights Watch, which was to protect the realms of men from the Others.

It's fascinating to see how incapable you are of putting yourself in another's shoes to see their perspective.

 

In their minds, they were protecting people and Jon was betraying the Watch. They wouldn't agree that Wildlings are anything but the enemy. They said as much. It couldn't be more clear. And they betrayed their vows to protect the realm from that threat.

 

Your combined views on the show are astounding. What are you watching?

[Starkiller]

2 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

It's fascinating to see how incapable you are of putting yourself in another's shoes to see their perspective.

 

In their minds, they were protecting people and Jon was betraying the Watch. They wouldn't agree that Wildlings are anything but the enemy. They said as much. It couldn't be more clear. And they betrayed their vows to protect the realm from that threat.

 

Your combined views on the show are astounding. What are you watching?

It’s not the same thing at all. It’s not really hard to comprehend, yet you can’t seem to grasp it.

 

They killed Jon as a “traitor”, not as a threat to the realm. Their hatred of wildlings as the enemy and Jon's act of mercy in saving them is why they murdered him.

 

Jon didn’t kill Dany because she was saving people he thought were the enemy. He killed her because she was a mass murderer who had intentions of continuing to kill anyone else standing her way.

 

Never go full Jamal...

[Jamalisms]

They killed Jon as a "traitor." Why would they think that if him? Because he was inviting the invading army, that just killed their friends, comrades and (in some cases) family into the realm.

 

You should watch the show some.

 

Poor SK and his mental blocks.

[9 Nines]

What if Jon and Cersi had a baby named Tom?

[OILERMAN]

A better ending I heard was if everything ended up the same but instead of getting exiled Greyworm beheaded Jon. Sansa and Arya end up agreeing to it to get independence for the North. 

[9 Nines]

There’s one problem with all this: Game of Thrones isn’t medieval. And it’s the nonmedieval features of the series that help explain its enormous popularity.

 

Let’s survey Martin’s world. Seven large kingdoms, each with multiple cities and towns, share a populous continent. Urban traders ply the Narrow Sea in galleys, carrying cargoes of wine, grains, and other commodities to the merchants of the Free Cities in the east. Slavers raid the southern continent and force slaves to work as miners, farmers, or household servants. There is a powerful bank based in the Venice-like independent republic of Braavos. A guild in Qarth dominates the international spice trade. Black-gowned, Jesuit-like “Maesters” create medicines, study the secrets of the human body, and use “far-eyes” (telescopes) to observe the stars. In King’s Landing, lords peruse sizable libraries and alchemists experiment with chemical reactions and napalm-like fires. New religions from across the sea threaten old beliefs; meanwhile, many in the ruling elite are closet atheists. And politically, in the aftermath of the Mad King and Joffrey, the downsides of hereditary monarchy are growing more obvious with every passing day.

 

These phenomena all belong to what historians call the “early modern” period—the timespan between the voyages of Columbus and de Gama at the end of the 15th century and the French and American Revolutions at the end of the 18th. A world that actually reflected daily life in the High Middle Ages (12th-century Europe) would be one without large cities or global networks. A diversity of religions would be inconceivable. Many aristocrats wouldn’t be able to read, let alone maintain large libraries. And no one would even know about the continents across the ocean.

[Starkiller]

8 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

A better ending I heard was if everything ended up the same but instead of getting exiled Greyworm beheaded Jon. Sansa and Arya end up agreeing to it to get independence for the North. 

That goes beyond bittersweet to just bitter...