Dolphins statement on Tyreek (and Calais and Jonnu) situation

[oldschool]

5 minutes ago, SleepingTitan said:

I am not mistaken about what the law is. But to your point about law school, we don't really deep dive into this stuff. The only time you really talk about cops is if you take some kind of elective that addresses it. In Criminal Procedure, you learn about the guard rails that courts have tried to establish (Constitutionally and procedurally). In Evidence, you learn about admissibility. In Constitutional Law, you learn about it from the standpoint of how they derived their police powers (states). Each state will exercise those police powers differently within the law. The biggest problem that was previously mentioned is qualified immunity. If the courts like the 5th circuit can start cracking that - we might get somewhere. 

 

I'd propose that police forces start incorporating more unarmed officers. Social workers on scene for DV, mental health calls, etc is a good start. De-escalation training would be natural from there. Unfortunately, the militarization of police from the 50s-present that started with Civil Rights and then the War on Drugs has gone too far. 

 

your 2nd paragraph is spot on. I'm pretty sure I've seen research that shows jurisdictions that implement such programs are generally safer and less confrontational. The problem is as soon as some unarmed officer/mental health tech gets shot or assaulted, its all over.

[WG53]

13 hours ago, Thrill said:

The solution would be to cut funding every time these police stations have to pay out tax payer money to someone who they abused and got sued by. This shit would clear up real quick. 
 

Meanwhile the people of Miami/Dade are probably going to be giving Tyreek and his lawyer a pretty penny for this stupid shit.

I think cops should be required to have the equivalent of a doctor's malpractice insurance. Make cops pay for this shit instead of taxpayers. I bet a lot of this behavior from them stops if they had to have these policies. 

[SleepingTitan]

Just now, WG53 said:

I think cops should be required to have the equivalent of a doctor's malpractice insurance. Make cops pay for this shit instead of taxpayers. I bet a lot of this behavior from them stops if they had to have these policies. 

I like this too. The cost wouldn't be passed down to cops because the unions would pick it up and the cities would include it in comp. 

[IowaOiler]

Just now, WG53 said:

I think cops should be required to have the equivalent of a doctor's malpractice insurance. Make cops pay for this shit instead of taxpayers. I bet a lot of this behavior from them stops if they had to have these policies. 

 

Interesting idea, but my bet is we'd see something similar to what happens with malpractice suits.  A lot of frivolous suits in the hopes the hospital or department settle out of court to keep from going to trial.  That cost will get passed to the consumer.

[IowaOiler]

Just now, SleepingTitan said:

I like this too. The cost wouldn't be passed down to cops because the unions would pick it up and the cities would include it in comp. 

 

Exactly...it's passed to the taxpayer.

[WG53]

Just now, IowaOiler said:

 

Interesting idea, but my bet is we'd see something similar to what happens with malpractice suits.  A lot of frivolous suits in the hopes the hospital or department settle out of court to keep from going to trial.  That cost will get passed to the consumer.

Just spitballing an idea here. I think it could be implemented in a way to counteract some of this. Definitely would need more refinement from people with more knowledge about the process involved.

[SleepingTitan]

2 minutes ago, IowaOiler said:

 

Interesting idea, but my bet is we'd see something similar to what happens with malpractice suits.  A lot of frivolous suits in the hopes the hospital or department settle out of court to keep from going to trial.  That cost will get passed to the consumer.

Well, the consumers are getting shot by police sooo.....

[Mythos27]

Do you see how you guys are all work-shopping the pros and cons of possible solutions to these problems? This is what should be happening among people with the power to actually make these changes and it isn't. 

[Mythos27]

1 minute ago, SleepingTitan said:

Well, the consumers are getting shot by police sooo.....

I might be speaking out of turn but I'd pay a little more to avoid a glock round in the ass. 

[SleepingTitan]

1 minute ago, Mythos27 said:

I might be speaking out of turn but I'd pay a little more to avoid a glock round in the ass. 

The other thing we might see if insurance gets involved and we eliminate qualified immunity? Compliance. Insurance companies serve a society in more ways than money. For personal injury claims, they're on the front lines analyzing fault and predicting court outcomes. They also trickle down training requirements and accountability for the those under their policies. If an insurance co says "we can't insure this officer" it's taken out of the Police Chief's hands. He's gotta put that cop on a desk or fire him. 

[titanruss]

13 hours ago, Thrill said:

The solution would be to cut funding every time these police stations have to pay out tax payer money to someone who they abused and got sued by. This shit would clear up real quick. 
 

Meanwhile the people of Miami/Dade are probably going to be giving Tyreek and his lawyer a pretty penny for this stupid shit.

Cutting funding would hurt everyone. 
 

They need to have insurance. Any other fines or penalties after that get paid out of the unions pension fund.
 

THEN that shit gets cleared out real quick. 
 

They also need to eliminate upper level intelligence restrictions. 

- require degrees - with higher pay for those getting connected minors like psychology.

- don't just waive half the job requirements if you are in the military

- Reward de-escalations with awards and cash rather than for getting shot at.

- provide/require continuing education. 
- require physical fitness tests to work outside the office. 

- cops with domestic violence incidents aren't allowed on the streets 
 

It's super simple and people would have zero issues with cops being very highly paid if their job required real training. You would weed out 95% of the psychos that belong in prison instead of behind a badge.
 

People would flock to the profession once it's respectable again and shows it actually cares about the public as well as its own officers.

Edited September 11, 2024 by titanruss

[titanruss]

18 minutes ago, IowaOiler said:

 

Exactly...it's passed to the taxpayer.

The math should be easy enough to figure out. The cost is already passed to the taxpayer in these lawsuits. 

[IowaOiler]

20 minutes ago, WG53 said:

Just spitballing an idea here. I think it could be implemented in a way to counteract some of this. Definitely would need more refinement from people with more knowledge about the process involved.

 

There is loser pays court costs, which is what should be implemented in malpractice suits.  Most countries in Europe already do this.

 

19 minutes ago, SleepingTitan said:

Well, the consumers are getting shot by police sooo.....

 

That wouldn't be a frivolous lawsuit.  Looking at healthcare examples, amputating the wrong leg isn't a frivolous lawsuit; suing a hospital because your brother came in complaining of knee pain and wasn't admitted, is a frivolous lawsuit (and one that was attempted while I worked in the ED).  

 

For cops, it would be worse, IMO, as people already try to antagonize them...imagine if there was significant financial gain added to the equation.  I'm not saying it's not an outside the box idea that is worth looking into, but there would have to be some ironing out by people smarter than most politicians.  

[IowaOiler]

9 minutes ago, titanruss said:

The math should be easy enough to figure out. The cost is already passed to the taxpayer in these lawsuits. 

 

Taxpayer math is always easy for politicians to figure out...they want more money so they can use it to buy more votes.  Just thinking about it on the surface, police unions would oppose it and as most criminals can't vote, it likely would fail and the unions possess more voters.  

[titanruss]

12 minutes ago, IowaOiler said:

 

Taxpayer math is always easy for politicians to figure out...they want more money so they can use it to buy more votes.  Just thinking about it on the surface, police unions would oppose it and as most criminals can't vote, it likely would fail and the unions possess more voters.  

Your first part seems irrelevant to the point. The money doesn't go to politicians. It likely saves money for the taxpayer and that's an easier sell to taxpayers- which politicians can campaign on. Politicians of course wouldn't be doing the math either. 

Of course the police would oppose it.... until you provide a much higher base pay and other incentives. Show unions the math how their take home could be significantly higher. They would also be more respected which is a big deal for the type of people many cops are - those that think they deserve respect just for a badge. 
 

 

Edited September 11, 2024 by titanruss