Invasion of Ukraine: Drone Incursion Into Poland

[TF_Titan]

10 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

There is still plenty of debate as to whether the F35 is more boon or boondoggle. 

 

I guess we're about to find out.

[tgo]

 

Some confirmation here. Russian Navy's Black Sea flagship.

Edited April 13, 2022 by tgo

[Starkiller]

15 minutes ago, headhunter said:

If you know anything about military power there's no debate at all. Our military absolutely love it and say it's a game changer. The only naysayers are people saying it's too expensive and not worth it but it is worth it. 

It’s the multifunction printer of the skies. It was designed to do everything pretty well where instead you could have designed 2 separate planes that would have been elite in the specific uses they were designed to do.

 

They thought they were going to save money by having a single aircraft that could do it all. Instead they wasted money trying to force a single aircraft to be able to do it all.

 

I'm sure it will end up being a good plane. But it was an astonishing waste of money despite being intended to save money. Great for Lockheed Martin shareholders though…

[headhunter]

2 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

It’s the multifunction printer of the skies. It was designed to do everything pretty well where instead you could have designed 2 separate planes that would have been elite in the specific uses they were designed to do.

 

They thought they were going to save money by having a single aircraft that could do it all. Instead they wasted money trying to force a single aircraft to be able to do it all.

 

I'm sure it will end up being a good plane. But it was an astonishing waste of money despite being intended to save money. Great for Lockheed Martin shareholders though…

Know clue why you are trying to explain military equipment to me. 

[Starkiller]

29 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Know clue why you are trying to explain military equipment to me. 

There’s no need to take my word for it. I’m going by everything I’ve read about it from the professionals for years. Being a jack of all trades but a master of none would be a lot more enticing if it wasn’t also a financial disaster.

[headhunter]

Just now, Starkiller said:

There’s no need to take my word for it. I’m going by everything I’ve read about it from the professionals for years. Being a jack of all trades but a master of none would be a lot more enticing if it wasn’t also a financial disaster.

Completely false. It's a master of all trades

[Starkiller]

Just now, headhunter said:

Completely false. It's a master of all trades

Just because it can do it all doesn’t mean it can do anything well…

[headhunter]

14 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Just because it can do it all doesn’t mean it can do anything well…

It can, there's no other jet in history with it's capabilities. It's the best jet ever made so far and no other country comes close to it's technology and the skill of our pilots. No idea why you're so pessimistic about it. You don't know anybody in the military do you? I do

Edited April 13, 2022 by headhunter

[reo]

1 hour ago, Starkiller said:

There is still plenty of debate as to whether the F35 is more boon or boondoggle. 

 

That's no where near the case. Not true at all.

[reo]

1 hour ago, Starkiller said:

It’s the multifunction printer of the skies.

 

Not true. It was rushed to production before it was ready w/ the expectation that minor flaws would be found and fixed as it went. But then those that didn't like it from the start panned it for those expected flaws. By and large it works great.

 

1 hour ago, Starkiller said:

It was designed to do everything pretty well where instead you could have designed 2 separate planes that would have been elite in the specific uses they were designed to do.

 

You're misunderstanding to a degree exactly what it does. It's a stealth bomber that can launch from a carrier that can then switch to dog fight mid-mission when needed then continue it's bombing run. It's an amazing aircraft. There's absolutely nothing else like it out there.

 

 

1 hour ago, Starkiller said:

 

They thought they were going to save money by having a single aircraft that could do it all. Instead they wasted money trying to force a single aircraft to be able to do it all.

 

I'm sure it will end up being a good plane. But it was an astonishing waste of money despite being intended to save money. Great for Lockheed Martin shareholders though…

 

You don't know what you're talking about on this. You're just reading articles.

Edited April 13, 2022 by reo

[headhunter]

1 minute ago, reo said:

 

Not true. It was rushed to production before it was reading w/ the expectation that minor flaws would be found and fixed as it went. But then those that didn't like it from the start panned it for those expected flaws. By and large it works great.

 

 

You're misunderstanding to a degree exactly what it does. It's a stealth bomber that can launch from a carrier that can then switch to dog fight mid-mission when needed then continue it's bombing run. It's an amazing aircraft. There's absolutely nothing else like it out there.

 

 

 

You don't know what you're talking about on this. You're just reading articles.

Thank you

[Starkiller]

3 minutes ago, reo said:

 

Not true. It was rushed to production before it was reading w/ the expectation that minor flaws would be found and fixed as it went. But then those that didn't like it from the start panned it for those expected flaws. By and large it works great.

 

 

You're misunderstanding to a degree exactly what it does. It's a stealth bomber that can launch from a carrier that can then switch to dog fight mid-mission when needed then continue it's bombing run. It's an amazing aircraft. There's absolutely nothing else like it out there.

 

 

 

You don't know what you're talking about on this. You're just reading articles.

As I said, I’m going by what the experts have said. I’m making no judgements of my own as I’ll never touch one much less fly one.

 

And it was designed to be good at everything, so it will clearly be a good plane. But you simply can’t design a plane to be a generalist and expect it to be as good at any of those individual tasks as a plane designed to specialize at fewer tasks.

 

You can’t prioritize speed and maneuverability on one hand while also prioritizing payload capacity. And you have to give up a lot of offensive capability in order to also maximize stealth capabilities. There are just too many tradeoffs on both sides of the equation.

 

The military would have been better off buying 2 or even 3 new planes rather than trying to force all those tasks to be handled by the F35. 

[reo]

Just now, Starkiller said:

As I said, I’m going by what the experts have said. I’m making no judgements of my own as I’ll never touch one much less fly one.

 

Google counterpoints to what you've read then.

 

Just now, Starkiller said:

 

And it was designed to be good at everything, so it will clearly be a good plane. But you simply can’t design a plane to be a generalist and expect it to be as good at any of those individual tasks as a plane designed to specialize at fewer tasks.

 

No. It was a designed to be a stealth bomber that can launch from a carrier and then switch to take care of itself then continue it's bombing run. Name another stealth bomber that can launch from a carrier. You can't b/c they don't exist.

 

 

Just now, Starkiller said:

You can’t prioritize speed and maneuverability on one hand while also prioritizing payload capacity. And you have to give up a lot of offensive capability in order to also maximize stealth capabilities. There are just too many tradeoffs on both sides of the equation.

 

There are tradeoffs for one or the other or doing a mix. That's not a negative of the F35. That doesn't mean it's not an amazing aircraft that can do things that no other aircraft can do. Name another aircraft w/ the F35's radar cross section and maneuverability not named F22 b/c the F22 was created for different reasons.

 

Just now, Starkiller said:

The military would have been better off buying 2 or even 3 new planes rather than trying to force all those tasks to be handled by the F35. 

 

Not true again. 

[headhunter]

12 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

As I said, I’m going by what the experts have said. I’m making no judgements of my own as I’ll never touch one much less fly one.

 

And it was designed to be good at everything, so it will clearly be a good plane. But you simply can’t design a plane to be a generalist and expect it to be as good at any of those individual tasks as a plane designed to specialize at fewer tasks.

 

You can’t prioritize speed and maneuverability on one hand while also prioritizing payload capacity. And you have to give up a lot of offensive capability in order to also maximize stealth capabilities. There are just too many tradeoffs on both sides of the equation.

 

The military would have been better off buying 2 or even 3 new planes rather than trying to force all those tasks to be handled by the F35. 

You have no clue what the hell you're talking about. 

[chef]

4 minutes ago, reo said:

 

Google counterpoints to what you've read then.

 

 

No. It was a designed to be a stealth bomber that can launch from a carrier and then switch to take care of itself then continue it's bombing run. Name another stealth bomber that can launch from a carrier. You can't b/c they don't exist.

 

 

 

There are tradeoffs for one or the other or doing a mix. That's not a negative of the F35. That doesn't mean it's not an amazing aircraft that can do things that no other aircraft can do. Name another aircraft w/ the F35's radar cross section and maneuverability not named F22 b/c the F22 was created for different reasons.

 

 

Not true again. 

 

Can we all just pause and do a slow golf clap for the Raptor?  Not that I WANT this to happen, but let's just imagine those rolling into Ukraine to hold A2A superiority.  Talking about a plane that first went up nearly 25 years ago IIRC, that by all accounts still holding #1 top of the charts ranking.  Had them on show at tarmac on Maui and got to take my boys up close and personal, talk to the crews.  Very cool.

 

Sure, maybe a one trick pony next to an F35, but a very nice trick.  I think you have to consider that if the F22 HADN'T been around, there likely could have been more challenges seen over the years.  

 

FTR I am very much not on the pro-military/war monger side of things.  But I do appreciate the technology, and the people behind it as well as flying/maintaining it.  And I'm realistic about the world and human nature.