GOP thread

[WG53]

8 hours ago, begooode said:

Again, ad hominem attack — jeez I’m old. You got me on that one. Clever.

Regan’s not the topic , but you’ve brought him up twice, based on what you’ve read, again chastising those who share their lived experiences like some kind of angry omniscient. But, hey you’re young. Maybe you’ll learn something between spouting so many condescending opinions.  Good luck!

Saying you're old isn't an ad hominem. It was a response to your " what are you 15" comment. Funny you accuse me of an ad hominem when I'm just returning your energy back to you.

 

I brought Reagan up because of your earlier post. You posted in defense of Reagan then later on start talking about posters here and how they respond to "centrist positions" as if those things weren't related.

[WG53]

8 hours ago, titanruss said:

 

and you underestimate their clearly stated goals that have been recorded on tape and written openly in a public plan

I mean...he is on video record saying they are actively trying to stop American democracy and people deny that they could stack the deck in their favor in they regain power.

[IsntLifeFunny]

8 hours ago, begooode said:

seems like you’re entirely dismissing his experiences (real) and arguments because of the threat of something that could happen (potentially real) and then saying he’s got nothing.  But , but project 2024! Slam dunk?

The Heritage Project is literally insane and likely poses the greatest threat in our country's history if Trump is elected. They want and have a detailed outline of how to use the executive branch to dismantle itself and use the overtly Supreme Court to do it. 

 

They don't care about Trump. They're willing to sacrifice every shred if dignity to get what they want: a White Christian Nationalist Government. It's actively scary and for anyone who has time I suggest you read up on the plan. It's around 450 pages. 

 

As to demeaning Justafan, we'll he's an asshole like the rest of us lol. It's okay for barbs to get shot when he's being one. Him being in the military and discussing the military doesn't stop that. I'm sure he would agree with that while knowing he's my guy. I'd treat him like an asshole too if I got into a back and forth with him like this and he'd do the same to me. That's the beauty of this place in my opinion. 

[nine]

55 years of life experience has made me a firm believer in Occam’s Razor….and also in Hanlon’s Razor:   “Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.”

 

Personally, I never saw Tuberville’s freeze on promotions as anything more than self-righteous virtue signaling for the religious right.   I find it unlikely that his grandstanding has been part of a deeper, more nefarious plot to exert control over the military.
 

However, with that being said….I also would have said the same back in 2020.  Had it been reported then that a sitting President’s  inner circle was plotting to fix an election by installing fake electors in several states and submitting counterfeit electoral certificates to Congress…I would have written it off as an  impossible, far-fetched fabrication.    But that is exactly what happened.  

 

 MAGA nation has already demonstrated their willingness to brazenly disregard the rule of law and even betray the Constitution itself as a means of furthering their own power.  
 

While i find it highly unlikely that forces are secretly plotting to put a panel of Trump loyalists in control of the entire US military…..such an endeavor would be very much on-brand and entirely consistent with their vision and past actions.   

[IsntLifeFunny]

I mean, the guy said he would be a dictator on day 1. He wants to round up and put in detention camps tens of millions of people. If he gets elected he's sure as hell going to do his best to be a dictator and it's very obvious the guardrails outlined in the Constitution are not enough because impeachment is impossible. 

 

I think some of the deductive reasoning is probably outlandish, but so was Trump being president in the first place...and now leading in the poles against Biden while crushing Republicans. If we vote him back into office it's going to be a wild ride and he absolutely will attempt to take over the military and make it a domestic force used inside the US. He's admitted as much and said he would he a dictator. 

 

As to the how I'll hold my understanding as I don't know enough about that, but if Trump is made president it will be a full on assault against Democracy, and I don't know if the guardrails will hold. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

9 hours ago, Justafan said:

No, of course I don’t take either party at face value.  I tend to subscribe to Occam’s razor. It just doesn’t seem very likely to me that there is a grand conspiracy and it does seem likely that he’s pushing a pro life agenda. 
 

 

Tubberville is a useful idiot, as are most of the Republicans. I don't know enough about the military side of things to make a judgement, but I do have zero doubt Tubberville is all for the plan made by the Heritage Foundation to completely obliterate the Executive Branch and instill a dictator. 

 

Hell, Bannon had on Kash Patel saying he would be the next head of the CIA. Talk to me about conspiracies and shit after listening to that fucking guy talk for a few minutes. We are living in the conspiracy right now. They want to topple the United States Government by hook or by crook. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

I mean Kash Patel was put into the Department of Defense. Listen to this crazy fuck. They're saying he may be head of the CIA or possibly even the AG. 

 

Got to the 2 minute mark. These are the people Trump wants in office. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

“We will go out and find the conspirators — not just in government, but in the media,” Patel told Bannon. “Yes, we’re going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections.”

 

“We’re going to come after you. Whether it’s criminally or civilly, we’ll figure that out. But yeah, we’re putting you all on notice, and Steve, this is why they hate us. This is why we’re tyrannical. This is why we’re dictators,” Patel said, suggesting those were terms used sometimes to describe them. “Because we’re actually going to use the Constitution to prosecute them for crimes they said we have always been guilty of but never have.”

 

Bannon, in setting up the question to Patel, underscored the same point, mentioning MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” show producers, as well as all media.

 

“And I want the Morning Joe producers that watch us and all the producers that watch us — this is just not rhetoric. We’re absolutely dead serious,” Bannon said. “You cannot have a constitutional republic and allow what these deep-staters have done to the country.

 

 

“The deep state — the administrative state, the fourth branch of government, never mentioned in the Constitution — is going to be taken apart, brick by brick, and the people that did these evil deeds will be held accountable and prosecuted, criminal prosecutions,” Bannon said, before asking Patel whether he thinks he can deliver the goods for the former president.

 

These are people in Trump's close council. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

9 hours ago, Justafan said:

You said the COS. Which CoS? I mean since you know the process and all. You clearly don’t just copy paste from the internet. 
 

The Joint CoS and the Army Chief of staff have nothing to do with the process. 
 

This is the bs I’m talking about. You argue with certainty about something you have a child’s understanding of. You came up with a whacko theory that isn’t possible based on the actual nomination process. 

I mean...i know I'm making a lot of posts back to back, but we had the head of the Joint Chiefs be threatened with execution. If the man who threatened that man with execution is re-elected don't be surprised if some crazy shit happens with how the military operates. 

 

I don't care about Tuberville, but I can see their point about him being a useful idiot holding up nominations so Trump can do it and be given the facade of legitimacy. They did it with Garland to steal the Supreme Court so it isn't beyond them whatsoever to have the people running the actual show ( it isn't that dumb fuck Trump or idiots like Tuberville) to be asymmetrical in their strategies. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by IsntLifeFunny

[Justafan]

10 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Tubberville is a useful idiot, as are most of the Republicans. I don't know enough about the military side of things to make a judgement, but I do have zero doubt Tubberville is all for the plan made by the Heritage Foundation to completely obliterate the Executive Branch and instill a dictator. 

 

Hell, Bannon had on Kash Patel saying he would be the next head of the CIA. Talk to me about conspiracies and shit after listening to that fucking guy talk for a few minutes. We are living in the conspiracy right now. They want to topple the United States Government by hook or by crook. 

Look man, if you want to choose to believe that there is some grand conspiracy to make Trump a dictator go ahead. You are entitled to that opinion, and Trump himself has given you every reason to believe he would like to do exactly that.

 

I don't.

 

The military stuff is just flat-out wrong.  The confusion comes from Trump just appointing Generals.  Generals are not judges, civilian advisors, or politicians. They are apolitical by nature of their position.  Even the article that Russ pointed out earlier was 124 "retired" generals. 

 

There are hundreds of these nominations.  That's why they call them nominative positions. It's also why you need people like the CJS, SOD, and others to advise you, but they don't pick at random... there is a promotion board, and people get on that list based on competence and achievement. 

 

We don't talk politics in uniform. This stuff is beat into cadets' heads at West Point and throughout our careers, and it's something senior leaders all understand and consider carefully.  Do you think this is the first time someone tried to use the military as a political weapon?  The constitution and the military are set up specifically to avoid this crisis.

 

Whatever plan you think DT and his cabal of evil Republicans have in store for you, let me assure you that the military will not go along with a coup. Milley stopped him last time. Mattis, Kelly, and McMasters all quit rather than compromise their values. You might find a couple of warped Michael Flynns out there, but there's not enough to do anything close to what's being suggested here.  I would argue you couldn't find enough "MAGA" (extreme sarcasm) generals to fill out the JCS, much less all the 3-4 star billets in the Army. This is an extremely small population of people who dedicated 30-40 years of their lives to make it to this point and are at or close to the end anyway.  They are SERVING.  They don't need the money, and they don't want the fame. You won't find a lot of men like that with extreme integrity who will throw it all away... and for what? So they can retire with four stars instead of three?

 

Anyone who thinks that has NO CLUE about what they are talking about. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

8 hours ago, Justafan said:

You miss the point, again. There are no phantom Generals. He gets a list. They don’t have a political record like judges. They swear a fealty to the constitution, not Trump. There’s literally nothing he can do about that and there aren’t a bunch of generals just waiting to betray their country to prop up Trump. This stuff is pure nonsense. 
 

Even if he doesn’t nominate people it will just hold up promotions. 
 

the theory you guys are suggesting doesn’t work the way you think it does. It’s not a point, it’s not debate. You’re just wrong and showing your ass.

 

Good points. I think what you're saying is it would have to be a much slower burn than can happen in reality. 2 star generals can't jump to 5 star generals. Is that correct under the eyes of the law regarding the President? 

[Justafan]

7 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I mean...i know I'm making a lot of posts back to back, but we had the head of the Joint Chiefs be threatened with execution. If the man who threatened that man with execution is re-elected don't be surprised if some crazy shit happens with how the military operates. 

 

I don't care about Tuberville, but I can see their point about him being a useful idiot holding up nominations so Trump can do it and be given the facade of legitimacy. They did it with Garland to steal the Supreme Court so it isn't beyond them whatsoever to have the people running the actual show ( it isn't that dumb fuck Trump or idiots like Tuberville) to be asymmetrical in their strategies. 

1. He didn't threaten to execute Milley, he said it was “an act so egregious that, in times gone by, the punishment would have been DEATH.”

2. He couldn't execute Milley even if he wanted to.  He could and probably would fire him. That happens all the time though.  Milley will make more money in retirement than he's making now.  He'll be fine. 

3. I understand your concern.  I'll say it again, I think it's unfounded and I will remain extremely skeptical until someone shows me anything at all more than dot connecting and speculation to back it up. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

2 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Look man, if you want to choose to believe that there is some grand conspiracy to make Trump a dictator go ahead. You are entitled to that opinion, and Trump himself has given you every reason to believe he would like to do exactly that.

 

I don't.

 

The military stuff is just flat-out wrong.  The confusion comes from Trump just appointing Generals.  Generals are not judges, civilian advisors, or politicians. They are apolitical by nature of their position.  Even the article that Russ pointed out earlier was 124 "retired" generals. 

 

There are hundreds of these nominations.  That's why they call them nominative positions. It's also why you need people like the CJS, SOD, and others to advise you, but they don't pick at random... there is a promotion board, and people get on that list based on competence and achievement. 

 

We don't talk politics in uniform. This stuff is beat into cadets' heads at West Point and throughout our careers, and it's something senior leaders all understand and consider carefully.  Do you think this is the first time someone tried to use the military as a political weapon?  The constitution and the military are set up specifically to avoid this crisis.

 

Whatever plan you think DT and his cabal of evil Republicans have in store for you, let me assure you that the military will not go along with a coup. Milley stopped him last time. Mattis, Kelly, and McMasters all quit rather than compromise their values. You might find a couple of warped Michael Flynns out there, but there's not enough to do anything close to what's being suggested here.  I would argue you couldn't find enough "MAGA" (extreme sarcasm) generals to fill out the JCS, much less all the 3-4 star billets in the Army. This is an extremely small population of people who dedicated 30-40 years of their lives to make it to this point and are at or close to the end anyway.  They are SERVING.  They don't need the money, and they don't want the fame. You won't find a lot of men like that with extreme integrity who will throw it all away... and for what? So they can retire with four stars instead of three?

 

Anyone who thinks that has NO CLUE about what they are talking about. 

I fully believe if Trump is elected he will attempt to become a dictator. He has admitted this on live air. He will do everything in his power to deconstruct the Federal Government. 

 

I appreciate what you're saying, very much actually. That doesn't mean he won't try and use the full weight of the President to have them bend to his will...he also has a scouted and planned SCOTUS that may agree with him on certain things that realign the entire foundation of our government, which does include the military. 

 

To a personal point, I see what you're saying about the men and women in these positions and hold that post as very insightful and valuable. Good stuff. 

[Justafan]

4 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Good points. I think what you're saying is it would have to be a much slower burn than can happen in reality. 2 star generals can't jump to 5 star generals. Is that correct under the eyes of the law regarding the President? 

That's technically correct but it's even more complicated than that.  It also wouldn't matter because the 2 stars are at 30 years instead of 35. They have more loyalty to their superiors than they do to any politician in Washington.  Huge swaths of generals would probably retire in protest if they tried a slow-burn approach.  To be replaced by... others with the exact same values who would also not comply with a military coup. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

3 minutes ago, Justafan said:

1. He didn't threaten to execute Milley, he said it was “an act so egregious that, in times gone by, the punishment would have been DEATH.”

2. He couldn't execute Milley even if he wanted to.  He could and probably would fire him. That happens all the time though.  Milley will make more money in retirement than he's making now.  He'll be fine. 

3. I understand your concern.  I'll say it again, I think it's unfounded and I will remain extremely skeptical until someone shows me anything at all more than dot connecting and speculation to back it up. 

You're worried about the military. That has been the discussion for several pages but not mine. I've made my point and so have others that regardless of you being correct it doesn't mean that Trump will not test the theory of how it all works. He's openly saying he will.