Anyone else's 401K taking a hit due to our bumbling dipshit President and his jerk off tariff wars?

[IsntLifeFunny]

11 hours ago, Btowner said:

China played him. He started this trade war, they responded and then patiently waited. At this point, they will delay or "slow walk" any negotiations. Eventually, he will negotiate on China's terms, call it a win and the village idiots will say #winning.

The sad part is the sanctions weren't a terrible idea. I know many disagree, but in my opinion they were a good move. The problem was always the fact is was the idiot leading the race on them. The fact is China is pushing our economy as the world leader. We tanked their economy with the sanctions, because they're more dependent upon us than we are them when it comes to their market share. They've had huge selloffs over the past year thanks in large part to the tariffs. 

 

The other end of it has always been their economy is so entirely centralized that the government will subsidize directly any losses to their economy in a direct manner that ours cannot. Negotiations needed to take place in a manner whereby we did not go into a recession and they did not have to stabilize their economy. The end game would have been protection of our intellectual property at the expense of market share. 

 

Most of this would have been avoided if the idiot had not have done away with the TPP. That pact guaranteed our ability to maintain the dominate economy in the world and we ceded it because of an idiot. Jobs would have been lost in the US. People would have been pissed off. But at the end of the day people don't seem to realize that people in this country making 30k a year can still afford a nice place to live and a large flat screen. That is much different than most of the world and globalization is catching up. 

 

What we are facing is a communist country leading the world within the next 15 years. People have no idea how much damage Trump has done to our country. 

[begooode]

2 hours ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

The sad part is the sanctions weren't a terrible idea. I know many disagree, but in my opinion they were a good move. The problem was always the fact is was the idiot leading the race on them. The fact is China is pushing our economy as the world leader. We tanked their economy with the sanctions, because they're more dependent upon us than we are them when it comes to their market share. They've had huge selloffs over the past year thanks in large part to the tariffs. 

Unilateral tariffs, erratically foisted soley from the USA were always a bad idea and lost us leverage and good standing.

 

You keep saying we tanked their economy with tariffs, but I don't think this is true.  The 10% tariffs were offset by 10% FX rate softening between USD/CNY -- a wash so far.  In fact the US is at an all time high in trade from CN and the slow down in their economy is from other trade partners not the US.  We have not singularly wrecked their economy at least not yet, but we have certainly shaken their confidence which would slow down investment.  Also, growth from a bigger base had to slow down at some point anyway.

[IsntLifeFunny]

26 minutes ago, begooode said:

Unilateral tariffs, erratically foisted soley from the USA were always a bad idea and lost us leverage and good standing.

 

You keep saying we tanked their economy with tariffs, but I don't think this is true.  The 10% tariffs were offset by 10% FX rate softening between USD/CNY -- a wash so far.  In fact the US is at an all time high in trade from CN and the slow down in their economy is from other trade partners not the US.  We have not singularly wrecked their economy at least not yet, but we have certainly shaken their confidence which would slow down investment.  Also, growth from a bigger base had to slow down at some point anyway.

Have you seen their stock market? I should have said we've sank their stock market, not their economy. They're at 4 year lows and tumbling. They will wait us out. 

 

As I said in my post the backing out of the TPP was a huge mistake. Unilaterally placing tariffs on them was a huge mistake. The idea of tariffs agains the communist regime was not a bad idea. It was just handled in the worst possible way by the worst possible administration. 

[ctm]

There is no doubt that American tariffs are slowing down the Chinese economy, thus the hit to their stock market.  The problem is that a slowing Chinese economy doesn't happen in a vacuum.  It affects other countries as well, especially emerging markets.  So the US stock market is worried about a slowdown in the global growth rate and the impact on the US.   That's the first problem for the market.

 

The other problem is that Trump is a known liar with no credibility on anything he says.  He came back from the G20 and said he had a deal and it was nothing.  This introduces another level of risk in the market because investors have no way of knowing what is true and when all this will end.

[begooode]

1 hour ago, ctm said:

The other problem is that Trump is a known liar with no credibility on anything he says.  He came back from the G20 and said he had a deal and it was nothing.  This introduces another level of risk in the market because investors have no way of knowing what is true and when all this will end.

I think this is the bigger issue more so than the tariffs imposed so far.  Hard to plan around crazy.

[ctm]

Chairman Jerome Powell and his colleagues said “economic activity has been rising at a strong rate’’ in a statement Wednesday following a two-day meeting in Washington. While officials said risks to their outlook “are roughly balanced,’’ they flagged threats from a softening world economy.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fed-raises-rates-while-trimming-190001795.html

[chef]

I think Americans in general underestimate the greatest advantage China has on its side over the US: time.  They simply work on a different scale, thinking multi generational at both a top gov't level as well as family one.  Thus their ability and commitment to plan and wait out tough moments is infinitely greater than ours, where there is always a midterm, or a sound bite, that takes precedent over long term real goals.  That control factor, that they (central gov't) can pretty much do what they want without question internally to the country, further empowers them in these situations.

 

Add Trump's demeanor and our overall media circus + lack of patience, and it's like a staring contest between Rodin's The Thinker and a HAADD 3rd grade boy with his hands in a sack full of Halloween candy.

 

And yes, whatever final "deal" might happen, I still hope it does, even if it's a dress on a pig called a Victoria's Secret model, would likely bode better for world (and our) economies than an angry full-blown walking away from the table.  Let them call it what they want (a la new NAFTA), just get it done.  Heck, maybe we should let him propose the Trump Pacific Partnership (TPP - but not like this, this one is in gold lettering).   

[OILERMAN]

2 hours ago, chef said:

I think Americans in general underestimate the greatest advantage China has on its side over the US: time.  They simply work on a different scale, thinking multi generational at both a top gov't level as well as family one. 

Exactly, I've heard many experts bring up this point. China is willing to let their market tank and can handle it.

 

Trump on the other hand, not so much. They'll throw his ass overboard

[scine09]

1 hour ago, ben4titans said:

Such good Americans, cheering against their own Country in the trade war to own Drumpf. Unfortunately for you goons, Trump is righting the ship and the long term economic outlook has improved drastically. 

In it till the end, huh?

[Starkiller]

19 hours ago, chef said:

I think Americans in general underestimate the greatest advantage China has on its side over the US: time. 

It’s largely the same thing in this case, but I think their biggest advantage is they aren’t a democracy. Xi and the party don’t have to worry about voters getting pissed off at economic problems (short of a full fledged revolution). They can plan for the future. 

 

Americans vote every other year and politicians are at the whim of the voters and short term economic problems. 

[chef]

24 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

It’s largely the same thing in this case, but I think their biggest advantage is they aren’t a democracy. Xi and the party don’t have to worry about voters getting pissed off at economic problems (short of a full fledged revolution). They can plan for the future. 

 

Americans vote every other year and politicians are at the whim of the voters and short term economic problems. 

That time (cultural, communist) and control (communist) factors are are yes basically in reference to that as well.

 

Not saying I want to switch, but you can see from party HQ in Beijing how they might shake they heads when looking at our system of gov't and society.  Must at times look like a terrifying, perilous, at times incredible stupid level of chaos.  But out of chaos....