Legaltitan Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 This manufactured outrage is very rich. The right wants to make abortion illegal. Well, when you do something that is illegal, normally there are consequences to that. But more than that, the pro-life movement is all about punishing women who want abortions. Not criminally, and not overtly. But through different procedural hoops, necessary invasive procedures, and a whole host of these little "death by a thousand cuts" laws. The right is incensed at Trump over the abortion comments for the reason they have been apauled by him all along - Trump "outs" their positions and agendas. As has been said by many, Trump turns dog whistles into trumpets. Give me a break with this "oh the horror of suggestion we punish women who want abortions!" The right has been pushing that agenda for years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanjuicy Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 And poof!!! A zealot appears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 "Anti-abortion forces only want to punish abortion doctors." I'm sure they have no problem with women just going out and learning coat hanger procedure on YouTube when the abortion doctors are all out of business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legaltitan Posted April 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 And just on cue, I come across this article today on yahoo: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/31/texas-forced-this-woman-to-deliver-a-stillborn-baby.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28The+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29 52 minutes ago, Soxcat said: Technically what Trump said was perfectly sound.... If there is a law, you break it, you get punished. Common sense. On this part of your post, we agree. So if that is common sense, then why is the far right demonizing Trump for saying? They are doing so because he has destroyed their "messaging." I.e. they don't want it said out loud what they really think. In fact there was an article in the Federalist today that made this very point. It was called "5 reasons Trump's comments betrayed the pro life movement" and number one was basically that he had ruined their carefully constructed "messaging." Strong pro life movement absolutely wants to punish women who want abortions and they don't really hide from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctm Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Given that life begins at conception. If abortion is made illegal, isn't the doctor who commits an abortion guilty of some type of homicide? And therefore, isn't the woman who willingly visits the doctor for the procedure and gives her consent an accomplice to the doctor's crime? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legaltitan Posted April 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, ctm said: Given that life begins at conception. If abortion is made illegal, isn't the doctor who commits an abortion guilty of some type of homicide? And therefore, isn't the woman who willingly visits the doctor for the procedure and gives her consent an accomplice to the doctor's crime? Well of course. They won't say that out loud of course. But the logical conclusion of the pro-life movement is that a woman who gets an abortion is an accessory to murder. But yet they are astonished and outraged Trump would suggest the woman should be punished. Give me a break. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 NPR did a piece on this yesterday. When abortion was illegal, women were routinely arrested - it was not just the provider. A historian, on the subject, stated that the normal procedure by police was to case a suspected doctor, wait for a lady to meet the doctor, then continue to wait to give enough time so that the doctor would likely be in the middle of the abortion procedure, then raid the office. The lady would be arrested, booked, and jailed then threatened with charges unless she fully cooperated with prosecutors against the doctor. If prosecutors needed them for witnesses then, I do not see how that need would be any different now if abortion became illegal, so it seems the women would be considered criminals again to force their cooperation as witnesses. The anti-abortion camp is now trying to white-wash that fact because they know that is a hard sale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctm Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 7 minutes ago, Legaltitan said: Well of course. They won't say that out loud of course. But the logical conclusion of the pro-life movement is that a woman who gets an abortion is an accessory to murder. But yet they are astonished and outraged Trump would suggest the woman should be punished. Give me a break. Furthermore, every time any woman has a miscarriage (especially if she goes to a hospital where there is a public record), there would need to to be a police investigation to see if she willingly caused it. Because if she did then she committed a crime. A self-induced abortion/miscarriage by a woman would be no different than a doctor who performed the procedure. A homicide would have been committed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btowner Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Out of curiosity, I have a question for the Pro Life posters. If a girl in junior high is molested by an uncle and gets pregnant. What should happen? Do you tell this girl she is contemplating murder? If she contemplates dropping out of school because of the stigma of being pregnant in the 8th grade. How do you help her? If her family is struggling financially, any suggestions on how they pay the medical bills? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanruss Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 3 hours ago, Legaltitan said: And just on cue, I come across this article today on yahoo: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/31/texas-forced-this-woman-to-deliver-a-stillborn-baby.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28The+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29 On this part of your post, we agree. So if that is common sense, then why is the far right demonizing Trump for saying? They are doing so because he has destroyed their "messaging." I.e. they don't want it said out loud what they really think. In fact there was an article in the Federalist today that made this very point. It was called "5 reasons Trump's comments betrayed the pro life movement" and number one was basically that he had ruined their carefully constructed "messaging." Strong pro life movement absolutely wants to punish women who want abortions and they don't really hide from it. I'll never understand peoples needs to demonize actions when attempting to have a logical and rational discussion. The truth is, and i'm sure you know this, republican christians believe killing babies/fetuses is wrong. Sure, they need ways to stop it. The pro-life movement is not "all about punishing women who want abortions".. the pro life movement is about accepting responsibility for your actions or preparing yourself in life so that you dont have to have certain consequences with in which to deal. For the record i am pro-choice. I just dont demonize every person who has a different opinion politically. The truth and only truth to the matter is that they dont want him saying it because it sounds bad when you dont actually think about it and they will lose even more of the women vote to hillary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-RAC Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Republicans don't hate what Trump says. They hate that he doesn't couch his rhetoric in code words and innuendo the way a good politician is supposed to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Earl Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 I believe partial birth abortions are illegal, but only the doctor can be charged. 8 U.S. Code § 1531 (e) A woman upon whom a partial-birth abortion is performed may not be prosecuted under this section, for a conspiracy to violate this section, or for an offense under section 2, 3, or 4 of this title based on a violation of this section. If this is the case, then I doubt they would write up the laws differently (at least in most states), if all abortion were made illegal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 The funniest part of it all, we know Trump is pro choice and didn't mean a word of what he said. My favorite podcast(I posted it) was the Drs and nurses being interviewed about the women who were marching against the abortion clinics and going inside to get abortions, then going back out to protest abortions. It's not just an every now and then occurrence either, it's very common. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 4 hours ago, titanruss said: I'll never understand peoples needs to demonize actions when attempting to have a logical and rational discussion. The truth is, and i'm sure you know this, republican christians believe killing babies/fetuses is wrong. Sure, they need ways to stop it. The pro-life movement is not "all about punishing women who want abortions".. the pro life movement is about accepting responsibility for your actions or preparing yourself in life so that you dont have to have certain consequences with in which to deal. For the record i am pro-choice. I just dont demonize every person who has a different opinion politically. The truth and only truth to the matter is that they dont want him saying it because it sounds bad when you dont actually think about it and they will lose even more of the women vote to hillary. Don't add depth to a side that isn't there. As a general rule the pro life side is about simplifying a complicated conversation to the simplest terms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alzarius Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 26 minutes ago, reo said: Don't add depth to a side that isn't there. As a general rule the pro life side is about simplifying a complicated conversation to the simplest terms. "Its the womans body, she can do whatever she wants with it." Sooooo complex............ About as complex as "its living, end of story." Two way street Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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