Lakers

[NashvilleNinja]

No, Kobe signed a contract and he's riding it out. He's not holding the team hostage--he played plenty of years technically underpaid. With or without Kobe, the Lakers aren't contending. Kobe playing out his contract isn't going to change that. What happens if he leaves 8-9 million bucks on the table? They sign Robin Lopez? Lol, no. They had the money to chase two max free agents. The dude wants to play, and he still has some gas left in the tank. He's one of the most marketable stars. Lakers are better off with him in a lot of ways. 

Well, in that case they just suck.

[kyle021]

Hope was to sign two max offers and compete this and next year. We got burnt again

[abenjami]

Kyle got absolutely posterized in this thread. 

I am loving watching Kobe and the Lakers suck.  It's well deserved considering the way he became a Laker in the first place, which was by being a huge whiney bitch and refusing to play for the team that drafted him. 

[OILERMAN]

Kyle got absolutely posterized in this thread. 

 

[IsntLifeFunny]

At least they aren't the Knicks. 

[rns90]

At least they aren't the Knicks. 

Not sure I'd say that.  The Knicks (and Phil Jackson in particular) are nowhere near as incompetent as the Lakers have been over the past few years.  And most of their FA signings have been at least OK, aside from overpaying Robin Lopez.  

They also play in the Eastern conference where it is probably faster to rebuild than the West.

[socaltitan]

Knicks have been incompetent a lot longer than the Lakers have

[IrishTitansFan]

I'm a Bulls fan but Kobe is a top 5 player all-time and the closest thing to Jordan there ever will be. LeBron is the better player all-around easily but give me Kobe in a finals series all day long, it's not even close.. Funny how those praising LeBron for shooting 30+ times a game are the ones who would slam Kobe for doing the exact same thing.

[rns90]

I'm a Bulls fan but Kobe is a top 5 player all-time and the closest thing to Jordan there ever will be. LeBron is the better player all-around easily but give me Kobe in a finals series all day long, it's not even close.. Funny how those praising LeBron for shooting 30+ times a game are the ones who would slam Kobe for doing the exact same thing.

LOL, you are usually a smart guy, but again this is a load of fucking horseshit.

The defense of that chucker Kobe Bryant is astounding.

Kobe Bryant in the Finals:

2000:  shot 36.7%, including only 20% from 3pt range.  Got outplayed by Jalen Rose and Austin Croshere, and Reggie Miller in that series.  And lets be honest Shaq dominated that series averaging 38 points and 61% that series.

2001:  shot 41.5%, 33.3% from 3pt range.  Red flag here is that he almost took as many shots as Shaq (110 vs 106). Shaq averaged 33 points on 57.3% shooting.

2002: he played well here against the Nets.  Although I will point out that the Eastern conference sucked ass around this time.

2004:  already mentioned his "heroic efforts" a few pages back.

2008: shot 40.5% including 32.1% from 3 point range.  This next stat is astounding:  he attempted 131 shots in that series.  Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom had a combined 122 shots total.  They also shot over 50%.  Ray Allen, the guy he was guarding, shot over 50% from the field and from 3 point range.

2009:  same old story, el bricko shoots 43% from the field, and 36% from 3.  He attempts 135 shots(in only 5 games).  I'm shocked his arm didn't fall off.  The other 2 guys Gasol and Odom combined to shoot 108 times.  They respectively shot 60% and 54.2%.  Outplayed by Hedo Turkolgu who shot 49.2% and 43.8% from 3.

2010:  Clank Bryant shoots 41% from the field, 31.9% from 3.  Including in that is a stellar 6-24 fg, 0-6 from 3 game 7 performance.  Gasol shoots 47.8%.  Ron Artest somehow managed to lob up the 3rd most shots on the team.  But he did save them with the late 3 in that game.

so out of 7 finals appearances he has shot above 47% only once (2002 wipeout of Nets) and on the majority of those teams he wasn't even the best shooting guard in that series or the best option on offense on his own team.

 

[rns90]

Lebron finals stats:

2007: shot 35.6% and 20% from 3.  Shot 90 times. Again, they were a big dog in this series and there is only so much you can do with Drew Gooden and Daniel Gibson as your 2nd and 3rd best players

2011: shot 47.8% and 32.1% from 3.  Did not shoot the most on his team (Wade and Bosh attempted more shots).  Got outplayed by Dirk who shot a higher % from 3.

2012: shot 47.2 % and 18.8% from 3.  Shot the most on his team at 108.  Wade attempted 92 shots and shot 43%.  Bosh attempted only 62 shots.  Lebron shot the best % out of the "Big 3"

2013: shot 44.7% and 35.3% from 3.  Shot the most at 150 shot attempts.  Wade had 126 attempts and shot 47%.  Bosh had 78 shots at 46.2%.  Of note shot 12-23 and had 37 points in deciding game 7, unlike Kobe.

2014: shot 57.2% and 51% from 3.  Shot the most at 91 attempts.  Wade sucked this series: 64 attempts and shot a Bryantesque 43% and 33.3% from 3.  Bosh had 51 attempts and 54.9% shooting, including 38.5% from 3.  Not the best SF in this series though as he was outplayed by Kawhi Leonard.

2015: shot 39.8% and 31% from 3.  He had 196 shots.  No need to go in detail with this one.  The injuries killed them.

How is Kobe Bryant significantly better than Lebron James?  He only has more finals wins because he played with a better all around team that masked all his tedencies to shoot and miss a lot. Lebron at least has the excuse of being saddled with scrubs on two of those final trips.  Kobe--he shot the most even though he had all star players around him on all those teams.

Oh and that statement that Kobe is a Top 5 player.  Not even close.  Magic, Kareem, Tim Duncan and Lebron and Bird are all better than him.

[IrishTitansFan]

LOL, you are usually a smart guy, but again this is a load of fucking horseshit.

The defense of that chucker Kobe Bryant is astounding.

Kobe Bryant in the Finals:

2000:  shot 36.7%, including only 20% from 3pt range.  Got outplayed by Jalen Rose and Austin Croshere, and Reggie Miller in that series.  And lets be honest Shaq dominated that series averaging 38 points and 61% that series.

2001:  shot 41.5%, 33.3% from 3pt range.  Red flag here is that he almost took as many shots as Shaq (110 vs 106). Shaq averaged 33 points on 57.3% shooting.

2002: he played well here against the Nets.  Although I will point out that the Eastern conference sucked ass around this time.

2004:  already mentioned his "heroic efforts" a few pages back.

2008: shot 40.5% including 32.1% from 3 point range.  This next stat is astounding:  he attempted 131 shots in that series.  Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom had a combined 122 shots total.  They also shot over 50%.  Ray Allen, the guy he was guarding, shot over 50% from the field and from 3 point range.

2009:  same old story, el bricko shoots 43% from the field, and 36% from 3.  He attempts 135 shots(in only 5 games).  I'm shocked his arm didn't fall off.  The other 2 guys Gasol and Odom combined to shoot 108 times.  They respectively shot 60% and 54.2%.  Outplayed by Hedo Turkolgu who shot 49.2% and 43.8% from 3.

2010:  Clank Bryant shoots 41% from the field, 31.9% from 3.  Including in that is a stellar 6-24 fg, 0-6 from 3 game 7 performance.  Gasol shoots 47.8%.  Ron Artest somehow managed to lob up the 3rd most shots on the team.  But he did save them with the late 3 in that game.

so out of 7 finals appearances he has shot above 47% only once (2002 wipeout of Nets) and on the majority of those teams he wasn't even the best shooting guard in that series or the best option on offense on his own team.

 

This so clearly reeks of an agenda and is just complete drivel for the most part. C'mon man, you are acting like efficency= better performances hands down.. It's like you watched none of these series at all. You sound like Mike trying to talk about Jay Cutler just throwing out stats like they are gospel. You completely discount all of Kobe's performances, even going as far to say as he only played well because the EC sucked.  LeBron averaged 4 points PPG in the 4th quarter against the Mavs, but I can appreciate greatness. Learn to appreciate Kobe because he is an all-time great and won't be around much longer. 

[rns90]

This so clearly reeks of an agenda and is just complete drivel for the most part. C'mon man, you are acting like efficency= better performances hands down.. It's like you watched none of these series at all. You sound like Mike trying to talk about Jay Cutler just throwing out stats like they are gospel. You completely discount all of Kobe's performances, even going as far to say as he only played well because the EC sucked.  LeBron averaged 4 points PPG in the 4th quarter against the Mavs, but I can appreciate greatness. Learn to appreciate Kobe because he is an all-time great and won't be around much longer. 

I did watch those games, did you?  Can you explain to me why, he would shoot so many times when he had better teammates?  He is not a team player and never has been.  What exactly am I missing here his 4th quarter prowess in games?  News flash--he shoots a poor percentage in those quarters as well.  I'd post those stats too but then you'd say the stats lie.    Explain 2004, when I railroaded him when it was obvious to everyone that Shaq was the better player and Bryant just kept on shooting contested shot after contested shot?

And yes, competiton does matter here.  If he had played better in any of the other Finals series, I wouldn't even mention it but it sticks out.  I don't discount that he's a great scorer but you saying he is a Top 5 player of all  time is bullshit.  For starters, he hasn't been a good defensive player for years now.  

[Guest]

I'm a Bulls fan but Kobe is a top 5 player all-time and the closest thing to Jordan there ever will be. LeBron is the better player all-around easily but give me Kobe in a finals series all day long, it's not even close.. Funny how those praising LeBron for shooting 30+ times a game are the ones who would slam Kobe for doing the exact same thing.

I think attitude wise Kobe is very close to Jordan, and yeah, he's an amazing player. For these conversations all of it is so subjective and based on speculation. But the argument you make in the last two sentences doesn't stand IMO if you look at basketball history. LeBron's effort in this finals cements he can play on historically bad rosters. We've never seen Kobe on a big stage without an amazing team because he never came close to making it that far. When Kobe has been on a bad team those teams have never been contenders, and IIRC he hasn't even made it past the first round without solid teammates. LeBron is more capable of elevating a team, and I think it's a fair point to make that I don't know of a player who has done more with less than LeBron has in CLE. 

[IrishTitansFan]

I think attitude wise Kobe is very close to Jordan, and yeah, he's an amazing player. For these conversations all of it is so subjective and based on speculation. But the argument you make in the last two sentences doesn't stand IMO if you look at basketball history. LeBron's effort in this finals cements he can play on historically bad rosters. We've never seen Kobe on a big stage without an amazing team because he never came close to making it that far. When Kobe has been on a bad team those teams have never been contenders, and IIRC he hasn't even made it past the first round without solid teammates. LeBron is more capable of elevating a team, and I think it's a fair point to make that I don't know of a player who has done more with less than LeBron has in CLE. 

LeBron unquestionably makes his teammates better, but I thought he went about this years finals the wrong way. This argument is also subjective in a way, as people throw out the stats of LeBrons teammates when they were never able to get in any sort of a rhythm because LeBron took so many shots. You aren't going to shoot a very high percentage if you can only shoot 1/2 times every 5 minutes and many of these shots were toward the end of the SC when LeBron was trying to find an avenue to score for 20 seconds. I think LeBrons Heat teams were superior to the 08-10 Lakers, although they had the edge with Phil Jackson. I think Pau Gasol at that time was more or less as talented as Chris Bosh when he came over and Wade was a top 10 player in the league before the knee issues. LeBron should, and will go down as being better than Kobe but I would take Kobe in a finals series. I just think that whole "Killer instinct" thing is actually a real trait and Kobe has it. He just seemed to will his team to victory.

[IrishTitansFan]

I did watch those games, did you?  Can you explain to me why, he would shoot so many times when he had better teammates?  He is not a team player and never has been.  What exactly am I missing here his 4th quarter prowess in games?  News flash--he shoots a poor percentage in those quarters as well.  I'd post those stats too but then you'd say the stats lie.    Explain 2004, when I railroaded him when it was obvious to everyone that Shaq was the better player and Bryant just kept on shooting contested shot after contested shot?

And yes, competiton does matter here.  If he had played better in any of the other Finals series, I wouldn't even mention it but it sticks out.  I don't discount that he's a great scorer but you saying he is a Top 5 player of all  time is bullshit.  For starters, he hasn't been a good defensive player for years now.  

He was very good in both series against the Celtics. Don't kid yourself, Pau was good, but never really an elite player. His last year with the Bulls was arguably one of the best of his career. LeBron has been a bad to terrible defender the last 2 years, guess what? He's top 5 all time.