oldschool Posted Wednesday at 11:14 PM Report Share Posted Wednesday at 11:14 PM 1 hour ago, Nash said: My comment re: small market , (as per Wikipedia they are the "last of the small market teams"), perhaps I should have said "They have no wealthy owner" because they are a community owned non-profit team..My perception is that they have been a draft and develop team out of economic necessity, but with the Parson's signing perhaps that is changing. Right the team that signed Reggie White all those years ago and has signed plenty of big time FA over the years.... its the NFL. Revenue sharing and TV contracts reign supreme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanruss Posted Wednesday at 11:28 PM Report Share Posted Wednesday at 11:28 PM The biggest difference between small / big market teams and teams with rich / poor owners are the facilities and equipment, coaching staffs they can afford, food and health and training staff and just generally the things that go the extra mile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted Thursday at 03:55 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 03:55 PM Random thought: Thinking ahead about the defense/personnel - Matt Nagy had a 3-4 base defense the whole time he was in Chicago, despite going through 3 different coordinators. I wonder if Borgonzi will be inclined to keep this Baltimore rendition of the 3-4 intact (lots of 3 safety looks of course, man coverage corners). He and Brinker have both continually had high praise for Wilson (doubtful he'll be retained of course, but a similar coordinator philosophically maybe - like Anthony Weaver). Someone like Saleh of course, or even Stefanski or Arthur Smith, have naturally been inclined toward 4-3 base defenses that function very different personnel-wise from this defense. With Saleh, his corners are going to be different than the corners Borgonzi has gone after thus far for example. And Oladejo is a very different fit at edge in a 4-3 base vs. OLB in a 3-4 base since you want Oladejo rushing from a two point stance generally. If I were Borgo and wanting to maximize guys like Sweat, Oladejo, Kevin Winston, Cedric Gray - I may be inclined toward a similar 3-4 defense. It's interesting that Zeigler was involved in the HC search with the Saints when they interviewed Weaver and then of course McKenzie had overlap with him at the Dolphins. Would a Matt Nagy/Anthony Weaver pairing be ideal for Borgonzi? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRamrod Posted Thursday at 04:01 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 04:01 PM 5 minutes ago, tgo said: Random thought: Thinking ahead about the defense/personnel - Matt Nagy had a 3-4 base defense the whole time he was in Chicago, despite going through 3 different coordinators. I wonder if Borgonzi will be inclined to keep this Baltimore rendition of the 3-4 intact (lots of 3 safety looks of course, man coverage corners). He and Brinker have both continually had high praise for Wilson (doubtful he'll be retained of course, but a similar coordinator philosophically maybe - like Anthony Weaver). Someone like Saleh of course, or even Stefanski or Arthur Smith, have naturally been inclined toward 4-3 base defenses that function very different personnel-wise from this defense. With Saleh, his corners are going to be different than the corners Borgonzi has gone after thus far for example. And Oladejo is a very different fit at edge in a 4-3 base vs. OLB in a 3-4 base since you want Oladejo rushing from a two point stance generally. If I were Borgo and wanting to maximize guys like Sweat, Oladejo, Kevin Winston, Cedric Gray - I may be inclined toward a similar 3-4 defense. It's interesting that Zeigler was involved in the HC search with the Saints when they interviewed Weaver and then of course McKenzie had overlap with him at the Dolphins. Would a Matt Nagy/Anthony Weaver pairing be ideal for Borgonzi? I don’t remember who reported it but I saw someone say Weaver will be a surprise head coach candidate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted Thursday at 04:05 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 04:05 PM (edited) 4 minutes ago, TeamRamrod said: I don’t remember who reported it but I saw someone say Weaver will be a surprise head coach candidate. Oh no doubt. Russini mentioned him as a name to watch for the Titans. It's interesting that she had McKenzie on the GM list first, out of no where, and then Weaver as well now. Wonder if McKenzie is a source for her. Of course they interviewed McKenzie for GM but never intended to hire him for the role, wanted him on board in a different role. Edited Thursday at 04:06 PM by tgo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted Thursday at 04:15 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 04:15 PM 18 minutes ago, tgo said: Random thought: Thinking ahead about the defense/personnel - Matt Nagy had a 3-4 base defense the whole time he was in Chicago, despite going through 3 different coordinators. I wonder if Borgonzi will be inclined to keep this Baltimore rendition of the 3-4 intact (lots of 3 safety looks of course, man coverage corners). He and Brinker have both continually had high praise for Wilson (doubtful he'll be retained of course, but a similar coordinator philosophically maybe - like Anthony Weaver). Someone like Saleh of course, or even Stefanski or Arthur Smith, have naturally been inclined toward 4-3 base defenses that function very different personnel-wise from this defense. With Saleh, his corners are going to be different than the corners Borgonzi has gone after thus far for example. And Oladejo is a very different fit at edge in a 4-3 base vs. OLB in a 3-4 base since you want Oladejo rushing from a two point stance generally. If I were Borgo and wanting to maximize guys like Sweat, Oladejo, Kevin Winston, Cedric Gray - I may be inclined toward a similar 3-4 defense. It's interesting that Zeigler was involved in the HC search with the Saints when they interviewed Weaver and then of course McKenzie had overlap with him at the Dolphins. Would a Matt Nagy/Anthony Weaver pairing be ideal for Borgonzi? You are way overthinking this. There is very little difference between the 3-4 and 4-3 these days. Teams are in nickel most of the time and rush 4 on passing downs unless blitzing. OILERMAN 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted Thursday at 04:32 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 04:32 PM (edited) 19 minutes ago, oldschool said: You are way overthinking this. There is very little difference between the 3-4 and 4-3 these days. Teams are in nickel most of the time and rush 4 on passing downs unless blitzing. I'm aware - and yet the base defense is played like 25-30% of the time and the personnel requirements, particularly at edge, can be much different. Particularly where coverage responsibilities come into play. And depending on what kind of coverage you major in, your corners will look quite different and have different skillsets. We know that Borgo has a prototype at Edge/CB - I just don't know for sure whether he will want the incoming scheme to mold to his personnel vision or whether he will be more willing to adapt his personnel vision to a new coaching staff if they prefer different play styles. Some players are versatile enough to play base downs in either front of course - others are not. Like for instance, you very likely would not draft a player like Arvell Reese high if you were running a 4-3 base or had a larger edge profile. Because with off ball LB value being as low as it is, his utility largely would be from non-edge positions as a tweener type player who weighs well under 250 lbs. Edited Thursday at 04:38 PM by tgo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted Thursday at 04:43 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 04:43 PM 9 minutes ago, tgo said: I'm aware - and yet the base defense is played like 25-30% of the time and the personnel requirements, particularly at edge, can be much different. Particularly where coverage responsibilities come into play. And depending on what kind of coverage you major in, your corners will look quite different and have different skillsets. We know that Borgo has a prototype at Edge/CB - I just don't know for sure whether he will want the incoming scheme to mold to his personnel vision or whether he will be more willing to adapt his personnel vision to a new coaching staff if they prefer different play styles. Some players are versatile enough to play base downs in either front of course - others are not. Like for instance, you very likely would not draft a player like Arvell Reese high if you were running a 4-3 base or had a larger edge profile. Because with off ball LB value being as low as it is, his utility largely would be from non-edge positions as a tweener type player who weighs well under 250 lbs. You dont really see the front disparity skill wise you used to when teams played base more. Look at the steelers. Watt and Hightower can play the edge no matter what. Same with Van Ginkel and Grenard in Minnesota. Its about flexibility. As for corners, everyone wants guys who can man up and press. Zone can be taught. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted Thursday at 04:52 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 04:52 PM 3 minutes ago, oldschool said: You dont really see the front disparity skill wise you used to when teams played base more. Look at the steelers. Watt and Hightower can play the edge no matter what. Same with Van Ginkel and Grenard in Minnesota. Its about flexibility. As for corners, everyone wants guys who can man up and press. Zone can be taught. Eh, there are some really zone heavy teams out there that want zone corners still. And yeah, the disparity is not as glaring as it used to be - but there are plenty of instances where it would be an issue. Like, you wouldn't sign Trey Hendrickson to be a true 3-4 base OLB because there's no way he could play coverage at all and doesn't rush inside. He's a prototypical 4-3 DE. Like he may fit size-wise as a Borgo edge prototype but skill-set wise and playstyle wise, likely not a fit. Many players are scheme interchangeable if used correctly situationally, but there are guys out there who really are ideal for only certain roles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRamrod Posted Thursday at 04:55 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 04:55 PM From January. Worth remembering I suppose tgo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted Thursday at 05:02 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 05:02 PM 8 minutes ago, tgo said: Eh, there are some really zone heavy teams out there that want zone corners still. And yeah, the disparity is not as glaring as it used to be - but there are plenty of instances where it would be an issue. Like, you wouldn't sign Trey Hendrickson to be a true 3-4 base OLB because there's no way he could play coverage at all and doesn't rush inside. He's a prototypical 4-3 DE. Like he may fit size-wise as a Borgo edge prototype but skill-set wise and playstyle wise, likely not a fit. Many players are scheme interchangeable if used correctly situationally, but there are guys out there who really are ideal for only certain roles. Every def in the league would find a way to use a DE of Hendrickson ability. Its about players period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulluck4dmvp Posted Thursday at 05:02 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 05:02 PM Nagy Bongo59 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted Thursday at 05:08 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 05:08 PM (edited) 10 minutes ago, oldschool said: Every def in the league would find a way to use a DE of Hendrickson ability. Its about players period. And a 3-4 team wouldn't go out and sign Hendrickson to a historic contract, obviously. Or like ideally you wouldn't want Myles Garrett playing from a 2 point stance because it isn't his strength. Hendrickson will go a 4-3 team like the Colts with Lou Anarumo where the edges rush with their hand in the dirt. Edit: Micah Parsons wasn't a good example - he can play from both rush alignments well and is more versatile. Edited Thursday at 05:12 PM by tgo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted Thursday at 06:17 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 06:17 PM 1 hour ago, tgo said: And a 3-4 team wouldn't go out and sign Hendrickson to a historic contract, obviously. Or like ideally you wouldn't want Myles Garrett playing from a 2 point stance because it isn't his strength. Hendrickson will go a 4-3 team like the Colts with Lou Anarumo where the edges rush with their hand in the dirt. Edit: Micah Parsons wasn't a good example - he can play from both rush alignments well and is more versatile. You are living in the past. Every team in the league that has a need at EDGE would go after Hendrickson regardless of the scheme they run for their def fronts. This isn't 2000 anymore. Most teams are in nickel on passing downs and rush 4... Hendrickson would be a massive part of the pass rush plan no matter what. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted Thursday at 07:01 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 07:01 PM 43 minutes ago, oldschool said: You are living in the past. Every team in the league that has a need at EDGE would go after Hendrickson regardless of the scheme they run for their def fronts. This isn't 2000 anymore. Most teams are in nickel on passing downs and rush 4... Hendrickson would be a massive part of the pass rush plan no matter what. So basically - all players are interchangeable now regardless of scheme in your opinion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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