Legaltitan Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 I thought the episode was executed perfectly. Me, too, and I loved the books. I never had any doubt HBO would pull it off. And I have NEVEr watched something with as much nerves and adrenalin as I watched that episode. Man to go from Ygritte's stare of death after Jon leaves, back to Frey's castle, my heart was literally racing and pounding in my chest. When they played that Lannister song I pointed it out to my wife and I could barely even say the words. And then the utter brutality of it. I don't get any sense of change from the book in terms of fight vs. massacre. Yeah the Great John and some others made a bit of a fuss, but it was an outright complete and utter slaughter/shooting fish in a barrel in the books. There were just more characters in the books that couldn't have been captured right on the show. At the end of the day, it was a complete brutal massacre in the books, and whether the wolf took out a couple of guys or what makes no difference. The show had to make sure people understood this was a master stroke by Tywin Lannister, like when Michael Corleone was taken out, with absolutely no room for ambiguity. The books could afford some - the show could not or the effect would have been ruined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legaltitan Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 In no way was the TV Red Wedding bad... it was very good... but did it fulfill the lofty potential and expectations? It absolutely did. Do you live under a rock? Talk to anyone who has seen the show and not read the books, from the very smart to the not so smart, and almost to a man they were completely taken off guard, completely blown away, completely distrubed, upset and picking their jaw off the floor. What more do you want? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legaltitan Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 I'm glad Rob didn't fight back. There is something more intellectually rich of his whole campaign being over in a matter of seconds and that the "King of the North" like his father, was ultimately and for all his power helpless in death. It is a much sharper choice, albeit less epic, and fits more into my literary understanding of what GoT is. This. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) Rob was the good guy that most readers were rooting for. He was shown to be honorable through the first 3 books, a return to the concept of the noble medieval knight/lord. His death signifies to the readerviewer that the series is not your typical one where the protagonists triumphs over evil due to his stoic and virtuous nature. If you hadn't read the books, the results of that scene were shocking. Oddly enough, I have not read the latest book that is in print however I've been told by a few people that a lot of readers are going to be more upset at the next major character that gets killed off. As for the "Red Wedding", HBO's first mistake was sensationalizing the circumstances around Rob being wed. They completely changed his character in that respect which led to him being trivialized somewhat and them not staying true to the character. That being said, after watching the scene again I agree that it was good if not great. I do think they missed the target on the lead up to the event and all the foreboding that occurs in print. Then again, it's hard to convey that sort of thing to the same degree in filmtv. Edited June 5, 2013 by oldschool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG53 Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) It absolutely did. Do you live under a rock? Talk to anyone who has seen the show and not read the books, from the very smart to the not so smart, and almost to a man they were completely taken off guard, completely blown away, completely distrubed, upset and picking their jaw off the floor. What more do you want? I just started reading the first book the other day so I am nowhere near the "Red Wedding" in the books. But I was not blown away by what happened. It was exciting sure, but not what it was hyped to be. Atleast not for me. Merc's post on here and on FB hyped it up but it did not live up to the hype for me. Then again I have always felt the Starks were destined for tragic ends. Honesty and character are rewarded with death in this yarn. Edited June 5, 2013 by WG53 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMJ Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Michael Corleone taken out? What Godfather movie was this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMJ Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Also how did Tywin create a masterstroke? The Freys and Boltons both betrayed the Stark's for breaking the promise-of-marriage oath and likely seeing Robb could no longer win the war. All Tywin did was receive the news and condone (predictably) to their course of action. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG53 Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Also how did Tywin create a masterstroke? The Freys and Boltons both betrayed the Stark's for breaking the promise-of-marriage oath and likely seeing Robb could no longer win the war. All Tywin did was receive the news and condone (predictably) to their course of action. The killing stroke on Rob was a Lannister assassin. You think he didn't help sway Frey's mind? Don't be naive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Boltons didn't betray him b/c of that. They just took the opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Also how did Tywin create a masterstroke? The Freys and Boltons both betrayed the Stark's for breaking the promise-of-marriage oath and likely seeing Robb could no longer win the war. All Tywin did was receive the news and condone (predictably) to their course of action. The killing stroke on Rob was a Lannister assassin. You think he didn't help sway Frey's mind? Don't be naive. I think you have to attribute it to the Lannisters because of the way the episode was framed. The show began with Rob deliberating on whether or not he should take "what was dearest" to the Lannister's there home. Catelyn punctuated this with a quote to the same effect. And yet the blood letting began with precisely the opposite--not an assassination on Rob but the death of his wife and child. This set up perfectly Bolton's appropriate use of cliche--"the Lannisters send their regards" which made it clear who was really orchestrating the entire plot. That with the playing of the Lannister music--it was meant to emphasis the reach Tywin has--and how readily he capitalizes on such mistakes. One can infer he heard of Rob's insult/bride and immediately pounced on the opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMJ Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Roose Bolton killed Robb and is also married to Walders daughter. Again, how did Tywin demonstrate such a mastery of intrigue in this case? One family felt slighted the other jumped off a sinking ship. Easy pickings. They came to him imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMJ Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 The killing stroke on Rob was a Lannister assassin. You think he didn't help sway Frey's mind? Don't be naive. No, not as much as you give him credit for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 I think you have to attribute it to the Lannisters because of the way the episode was framed. The show began with Rob deliberating on whether or not he should take "what was dearest" to the Lannister's there home. Catelyn punctuated this with a quote to the same effect. And yet the blood letting began with precisely the opposite--not an assassination on Rob but the death of his wife and child. This set up perfectly Bolton's appropriate use of cliche--"the Lannisters send their regards" which made it clear who was really orchestrating the entire plot. That with the playing of the Lannister music--it was meant to emphasis the reach Tywin has--and how readily he capitalizes on such mistakes. One can infer he heard of Rob's insult/bride and immediately pounced on the opportunity. You are over analyzing it. He did not orchastrate it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) Tywin was behind it in the books, and I suspect it will become clear in the series as well down the road. Bolton turned on Robb in exchange for something that could only be granted by the king. Also because he had to make up for the loss of Jaime's hand by his men. And I think it's safe to say Frey wouldn't have killed the Starks if he didn't have guarantees of protection from the Lannisters. Tywin basically secured the North and the Riverlands in one stroke, or at least ended their rebellion. Edited June 5, 2013 by Starkiller reo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 You are over analyzing it. He did not orchastrate it. Perhaps--in context of the show, though, Rob was clearly made aware that his fate was due to the Lannisters and when you think about it in terms of telling a story it makes narrative sense to attribute the event to the Lannisters. It obviously wasn't a master stroke ala Michael Corleone's execution of the other five family heads, but I think (at least in terms of the show) we are meant to attribute the killing to the Lannisters for the reasons I mentioned above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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