Argentina's Trump bound for Presidency?

[Justafan]

1 minute ago, Starkiller said:

No, this is simply our history. And the parties reorganized based overwhelmingly on the response to the Civil Rights Act. The GOP became the party of "small government" as opposition to federal desegregation, civil rights, and Roe v Wade. They have made it clear today they don't give a shit about "small government", just in imposing their own beliefs.

This is a recreation of history, plain and simple. Conservatives as we know them today and Liberals as we know them today did not exist back then. It's true that Democrats split over the civil rights movement but it's not true that a "conservative" wing of the Democrat party split and became Republicans and liberal Republicans became modern Democrats.  There were progressives and conservatives back then but the social issues simply didn't exist so your theory just doesn't hold water. Strom Thurmond, the most famous of the Dems to switch parties was a huge progressive.  You're basically trying to make an argument that conservative = racist and liberal = saviors. It didn't go down like that at all, no matter how you try and twist words and history to fit this narrative that simply isn't based in reality. People on both sides of the aisle - many of whom remained with their respective parties for years or decades after were on both sides of civil rights. 

 

7 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Well I'm not huge fan of pronouns, in general. It's largely unnecessary and leads to more confusion and annoyance than it does anything beneficial.

 

That said, if we are going to refer to people by "miss" or "mister" anyway then why shouldn't trans people get to pick their own pronoun?

They can pick whatever pronoun they want. Who cares? The state just doesn't get to mandate that I use it. 

9 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

The founders set up a form of government based on majority rule (the government being elected representatives of the majority of voters), not a king. Thus any limitations they set on government was a way to prevent the tyranny of the majority.

This is a ridiculous take. Of course, Tyranny of the Majority influenced the Constitution, James Maddison wrote about it in great detail and he is considered the father of the Constitution for a reason, but the primary concern was the Tyranny they just left in England. The entire declaration of independence is them declaring the tyranny of the king and so they formed a government that would put checks and balances on the executive authority.  

 

17 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

No one has painted you as an extremist. And I never even remotely insinuated that you were a fascist. Stop being a drama queen. You routinely jump to conclusions that people are attacking you. And as far as I've seen, the only person who insulted you is someone who never even posts.

 

As for calling people fascists, I reserve the right to call anyone a fascist if they act like a fascist. You clearly are a more traditional conservative, not a MAGA-type. But the fact that you blindly refuse to see that the MAGA mob that controls the GOP fits the traits of fascism to a tee is entirely on you. You refuse to to define fascism for whatever reason even though you clearly don't side with their fascist tendencies.

 

And I have no particular problem with you disagreeing with me. But that doesn't mean I won't call you out when I do. If you won't defend your position then that's not on me.

BS. The only reason you ask that question is so no matter what anyone says, you can say - well, that's the Republicans, and you're republican, so that's you - I WIN! You've been combative and insulting in every single thread so give me a break with the dishonest rhetoric. Here's the best part - you keep saying it but I'M NOT REPUBLICAN. I do NOT support the religious right or the populists which makes up 75% of the Republican party. Let me say it again since you aren't getting it. I don't care what you think about Republicans, just don't loop me in that shit and try and take shots. 

 

Here's your definition time.

 

Fascism is a political philosophy that is authoritarianism, and nationalist and believes in a strong central government. They believe the state is more important than individual interests, and they violently oppose Marxist communism. Often but not always led by a dictator.

 

That ain't the GOP, even if Trump wishes it was. He's a populist, and there is a populist wing of the Republican party, but they definitely ain't authoritarian (except for the extreme extremists) in the way that fascists are, they don't believe the good of the state is more important than the individual (the opposite actually) and we don't have a dictator - thanks to the Republicans who stopped Trump. Thanks, Mike Pence. 

 

Communists, by the way, believe in the distribution of resources based on need, elimination of class distinction, and social self-realization through compassion and cooperation along with state-provided welfare and government education, and one of the first priorities of communist states was universal healthcare.  Tyranny is often enforced through government instead of a dictator, but sometimes there is a dictator too. 

 

If you want to call modern-day GOP fascists, then modern-day Democrats are communists by the same logic. 

[Starkiller]

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

This is a recreation of history, plain and simple. Conservatives as we know them today and Liberals as we know them today did not exist back then. It's true that Democrats split over the civil rights movement but it's not true that a "conservative" wing of the Democrat party split and became Republicans and liberal Republicans became modern Democrats.  There were progressives and conservatives back then but the social issues simply didn't exist so your theory just doesn't hold water. Strom Thurmond, the most famous of the Dems to switch parties was a huge progressive.  You're basically trying to make an argument that conservative = racist and liberal = saviors. It didn't go down like that at all, no matter how you try and twist words and history to fit this narrative that simply isn't based in reality. People on both sides of the aisle - many of whom remained with their respective parties for years or decades after were on both sides of civil rights. 

Sorry, that's what happened. No, it wasn't instantaneous. Some conservative Dems left the party immediately. Some stayed Democrats but stopped supporting the national party and the Democratic president in favor of candidates like George Wallace. Most became Republicans by the time of Nixon and Reagan because they supported the "Southern Strategy". By the time Clinton was in office, southern conservatives had overwhelmingly left the Democratic party for the GOP.

 

 

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

They can pick whatever pronoun they want. Who cares? The state just doesn't get to mandate that I use it. 

They can’t mandate that you use any pronoun. They probably can mandate that you don’t intentionally use the wrong one…

 

 

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

This is a ridiculous take. Of course, Tyranny of the Majority influenced the Constitution, James Maddison wrote about it in great detail and he is considered the father of the Constitution for a reason, but the primary concern was the Tyranny they just left in England. The entire declaration of independence is them declaring the tyranny of the king and so they formed a government that would put checks and balances on the executive authority.  

It’s not one or the other, it’s both. They didn’t want the tyranny of a king, but they also didn’t want the tyranny of the majority. 

 

 

[Justafan]

10 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Sorry, that's what happened. No, it wasn't instantaneous. Some conservative Dems left the party immediately. Some stayed Democrats but stopped supporting the national party and the Democratic president in favor of candidates like George Wallace. Most became Republicans by the time of Nixon and Reagan because they supported the "Southern Strategy". By the time Clinton was in office, southern conservatives had overwhelmingly left the Democratic party for the GOP.

 

 

They can’t mandate that you use any pronoun. They probably can mandate that you don’t intentionally use the wrong one…

 

 

It’s not one or the other, it’s both. They didn’t want the tyranny of a king, but they also didn’t want the tyranny of the majority. 

 

 

1. It’s exactly what happened - you’re trying to reinvent history. 

2. They did mandate it - keep up

3. Thats what I said. Thanks for finally admitting it. 

[Starkiller]

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

BS. The only reason you ask that question is so no matter what anyone says, you can say - well, that's the Republicans, and you're republican, so that's you - I WIN!

Stop trying to play the victim. I haven’t ever done that.

 

 

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

You've been combative and insulting in every single thread so give me a break with the dishonest rhetoric.

I’ve been “combative” because you refuse to put any detail behind any of your arguments and I keep asking for specifics. Any time you are asked for specifics, like all the evil things liberals are trying to impose on America, you don’t give any examples.

 

And if you want to claim I’ve been insulting then show me a quote where I have insulted you…

 

 

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

Here's the best part - you keep saying it but I'M NOT REPUBLICAN. I do NOT support the religious right or the populists which makes up 75% of the Republican party. Let me say it again since you aren't getting it. I don't care what you think about Republicans, just don't loop me in that shit and try and take shots. 

I’ve never once called you a Republican. I know better as a liberal who isn’t strictly a Democrat.
 

But you are clearly a conservative. Stop lying to yourself if not to the rest of us…

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

 

Here's your definition time.

 

Fascism is a political philosophy that is authoritarianism, and nationalist and believes in a strong central government. They believe the state is more important than individual interests, and they violently oppose Marxist communism. Often but not always led by a dictator.

Not sure what example you think there is for fascism without a dictator. It’s inherently an authoritarian form of government, thus it requires an authoritarian leader (who controls the central government).

 

Also, you are leaving out political violence. That’s one of the 3 key element of fascism. Violence against their political opponents, authoritarianism, and ultranationalism

 

 

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

That ain't the GOP, even if Trump wishes it was. He's a populist, and there is a populist wing of the Republican party, but they definitely ain't authoritarian (except for the extreme extremists) in the way that fascists are, they don't believe the good of the state is more important than the individual (the opposite actually) and we don't have a dictator - thanks to the Republicans who stopped Trump. Thanks, Mike Pence. 

Actually, that’s exactly what the modern, MAGA GOP is.
 

The authoritarianism is obvious. Trump has shown authoritarian tendencies since he first ran in 2016. Nothing has changed. But the rest of the party is just as bad with governors in all sorts of red states on the rampage.

 

The ultranationalism is obvious, too. The demonization of almost everyone non-white is out there in public for all to see. The “Make America Great Again” is no different than slogans used by Hitler or Mussolini. 
 

And the political violence is totally new to the Trump era. It’s routine for public officials to get swamped by death threats from MAGAts. And that ignores the actual violence in Charlottesville, or violence against peaceful protesters during the George Floyd protests, or January 6, or any number of smaller events.

Face it, the GOP is controlled by the fascists. You don’t support them the way LilEarl does, but you should at least be able to see it for what it is.
 

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

Communists, by the way, believe in the distribution of resources based on need, elimination of class distinction, and social self-realization through compassion and cooperation along with state-provided welfare and government education, and one of the first priorities of communist states was universal healthcare.  Tyranny is often enforced through government instead of a dictator, but sometimes there is a dictator too. 

 

If you want to call modern-day GOP fascists, then modern-day Democrats are communists by the same logic. 

Democrats are hardly Communists. At most you could say they are Democratic Socialists (aka Scandinavia, New Zealand, etc). And that’s just the liberal wing of the party. The rest of the party is as capitalist as they come.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Starkiller

[Starkiller]

9 minutes ago, Justafan said:

1. It’s exactly what happened - you’re trying to reinvent history. 

No, just explain it…
 

9 minutes ago, Justafan said:

2.They did mandate it - keep up

They can’t force you to use a pronoun if you never say a pronoun. They just prevent you from misgendering someone.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Justafan said:

3. Thats what I said. Thanks for finally admitting it. 

My argument never changed, but at least you can agree I was right…

[Starkiller]

Good story from PlanetMoney on Argentinian dollarization. You can either read it or listen to it. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/20/1197956140/javier-milei-argentina-dollarize-economy-inflation

[Little Earl]

Equador and El Salvador both benefited from dollarization.  

[Little Earl]

16 hours ago, Starkiller said:

Yes, southern Democrats were always the party of slavery and the KKK. They were conservatives.

 

 

Pure nonsense.  Byrd, Gore and Fulbright were liberal Democrats to name a few.   In fact the more Republican the South has become, the less racist.

[Strunk'sDessert]

1 hour ago, Little Earl said:

 

Pure nonsense.  Byrd, Gore and Fulbright were liberal Democrats to name a few.   In fact the more Republican the South has become, the less racist.

Well, that's a fucking take. You're truly amazing. You stay you. 

[titanruss]

On 12/20/2023 at 8:26 AM, Justafan said:

Here is the law in NY forcing employers and others to recognize 31 genders.

 

https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/law/legal-guidances-gender-identity-expression.page

 

There are your receipts.  Now feel free to debate this stupidity without me. 

 

What the fuck are you talking about? Receipts?.. where? You post bullshit that says nothing about what you claim it does and then go run away? When did you get so far right and knowledge averse?

 

For everyone else -

It's an article that says you can't treat people like ass because of their gender and you have to allow them to use restrooms... wow. No mention of 31 genders. In fact, the only "new" gender terms it even brings up are: Mx (title) and Ze/Hir (pronouns). Those 3 terms are to be used when requested by individuals but "they/them" is always ok too.

 

So basically if at work, someone says they are a she and you keep calling them "he" on purpose, that you can be sued for hostile workplace and gender discrimination. uh... good.

 

 

[titanruss]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:43 PM, Little Earl said:

 

FIFY as Democrats were always the party of slavery.   The most racist President was Woodrow Wilson, a Democrat.   More recently Robert KKK Byrd was a high ranking Senator who was a Democrat that was not conservative.

 

Earl you aren't this stupid and you know it. You know the history of the southern democrats and how they became the modern republican party. How the names stayed the same but the people in the parties switched sides. You know this and have always known it... but you bring up disengenuous BS to try and win in an argument where EVERYONE knows the truth.

 

Maybe you can convince your grandkids with lies.

Edited December 22, 2023 by titanruss

[titanruss]

14 minutes ago, Strunk'sDessert said:

Well, that's a fucking take. You're truly amazing. You stay you. 

 

liberals make laws to force the equal treatment of folks... because conservatives are assholes.

 

the assholes take credit for the effects of the laws the liberals make

[Justafan]

14 hours ago, titanruss said:

 

liberals make laws to force the equal treatment of folks... because conservatives are assholes.

 

the assholes take credit for the effects of the laws the liberals make

lol. You run around this forum and act like a complete douche to people and then post this. You people. Then you want to act entitled like I ‘owe’ any of you an explanation for anything. Learn to read. Maybe it’s an amygdala thing that you’re this blind to your own hypocrisy and how entitled and ridiculous you come off with these posts.  

[Justafan]

14 hours ago, titanruss said:

 

What the fuck are you talking about? Receipts?.. where? You post bullshit that says nothing about what you claim it does and then go run away? When did you get so far right and knowledge averse?

 

For everyone else -

It's an article that says you can't treat people like ass because of their gender and you have to allow them to use restrooms... wow. No mention of 31 genders. In fact, the only "new" gender terms it even brings up are: Mx (title) and Ze/Hir (pronouns). Those 3 terms are to be used when requested by individuals but "they/them" is always ok too.

 

So basically if at work, someone says they are a she and you keep calling them "he" on purpose, that you can be sued for hostile workplace and gender discrimination. uh... good.

 

 

Hello dummy, the MX is an insert for the 31 genders and the first part of the BILL requires using the preferred pronoun. It’s a law. There’s a fine enforced by the state. Up to 250000. You couldn’t be any more wrong here. 

[Justafan]

On 12/20/2023 at 10:45 PM, Starkiller said:

Stop trying to play the victim. I haven’t ever done that.

 

 

I’ve been “combative” because you refuse to put any detail behind any of your arguments and I keep asking for specifics. Any time you are asked for specifics, like all the evil things liberals are trying to impose on America, you don’t give any examples.

 

And if you want to claim I’ve been insulting then show me a quote where I have insulted you…

 

 

I’ve never once called you a Republican. I know better as a liberal who isn’t strictly a Democrat.
 

But you are clearly a conservative. Stop lying to yourself if not to the rest of us…

 

 

 

Not sure what example you think there is for fascism without a dictator. It’s inherently an authoritarian form of government, thus it requires an authoritarian leader (who controls the central government).

 

Also, you are leaving out political violence. That’s one of the 3 key element of fascism. Violence against their political opponents, authoritarianism, and ultranationalism

 

 

Actually, that’s exactly what the modern, MAGA GOP is.
 

The authoritarianism is obvious. Trump has shown authoritarian tendencies since he first ran in 2016. Nothing has changed. But the rest of the party is just as bad with governors in all sorts of red states on the rampage.

 

The ultranationalism is obvious, too. The demonization of almost everyone non-white is out there in public for all to see. The “Make America Great Again” is no different than slogans used by Hitler or Mussolini. 
 

And the political violence is totally new to the Trump era. It’s routine for public officials to get swamped by death threats from MAGAts. And that ignores the actual violence in Charlottesville, or violence against peaceful protesters during the George Floyd protests, or January 6, or any number of smaller events.

Face it, the GOP is controlled by the fascists. You don’t support them the way LilEarl does, but you should at least be able to see it for what it is.
 

Democrats are hardly Communists. At most you could say they are Democratic Socialists (aka Scandinavia, New Zealand, etc). And that’s just the liberal wing of the party. The rest of the party is as capitalist as they come.

This is too much to respond to on my phone but… you say you never did that but then turn around and do exactly that. It’s a lie that conservatives denied civil rights and liberal were the saviors. Both sides had people against and for civil rights. It’s disingenuous to pretend like modern day democrats were some saviors when many of them have nothing at all in common. The fascist stuff is ridiculous and inflammatory rhetoric from a zealot and nothing more.