Starkiller Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Justafan said: Democrats were staunchly opposed to civil rights. It's well-documented. Right. Conservatives. You do understand that just because modern day politics dictates that Republicans are the conservatives and Democrats are the liberals (really the whole moderate-conservative to liberal gamut) that this wasn’t always the case, right? If not then brush up on your history… 1 minute ago, Justafan said: No one is saying pick on people with gender dysphoria. It's not about inflicting pain, and it has nothing to do with being offended. Again, it's unsurprising that you can't tell the difference, but it is disappointing. That’s exactly what it is. The whole “it’s biology” argument is about trying to force these people into a choice of 2 boxes they don’t fit into just because it’s how your worldview works. Jamalisms 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted December 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 14 minutes ago, Justafan said: More like: WG53, Starkiller, and begooode 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, Starkiller said: Right. Conservatives. You do understand that just because modern day politics dictates that Republicans are the conservatives and Democrats are the liberals (really the whole moderate-conservative to liberal gamut) that this wasn’t always the case, right? If not then brush up on your history… That’s exactly what it is. The whole “it’s biology” argument is about trying to force these people into a choice of 2 boxes they don’t fit into just because it’s how your worldview works. Democrats were liberal back then. FDR? Kennedy. Lol - just because it's inconvenient doesn't make it any less true. No, the argument is about forcing people into mandated speech as a penalty for the tyranny of the state. There is a huge difference between asking people to be respectful and asking them to be respectful from the barrel of a gun. The entire Constitution was designed to stop stuff just like this. Just because their behavior is detestable and you don't like it doesn't give you the right to legislate them into good behavior. Suppose a private institution wants to fire a professor because they broke a code of conduct or something that the teacher agreed to when they came on board. In that case, that's a different situation, but people try to entangle things and paint the opposition in extremes to prove a point. Is this the 'conversation' you were so hell-bent on having? How predictable and sad that it would go this way. It's incredibly telling to me that the same people who so ardently argue for legally mandated respect are incapable of showing any themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jamalisms said: More like: I agree! Pathetic attempts from the mob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Justafan said: Democrats were liberal back then. FDR? Kennedy. Lol - just because it's inconvenient doesn't make it any less true. Back then both parties had both liberals and conservatives. I honestly can’t comprehend how that worked, but that’s how it was. Kennedy and LBJ both supported civil rights regulations and were both told that the Democratic Party would lose support of the South for a generation if that happened. It passed with support of socially liberal Republicans. And Dems did lose the South for way longer than a generation now. The conservative Dems of that era ran against their own party with 3rd party Dixiecrat candidates. And eventually the conservatives all became Republicans and the GOP swung hard right on all social issues. And if you don’t believe me, look it up for yourself… 20 minutes ago, Justafan said: No, the argument is about forcing people into mandated speech as a penalty for the tyranny of the state. “tyranny of the state” = forcing people to let other people live their lives. 20 minutes ago, Justafan said: There is a huge difference between asking people to be respectful and asking them to be respectful from the barrel of a gun. The entire Constitution was designed to stop stuff just like this. Just because their behavior is detestable and you don't like it doesn't give you the right to legislate them into good behavior. actually the Constitution was designed to prevent the “tyranny of the majority”. And that’s what you are defending. 20 minutes ago, Justafan said: Suppose a private institution wants to fire a professor because they broke a code of conduct or something that the teacher agreed to when they came on board. In that case, that's a different situation, but people try to entangle things and paint the opposition in extremes to prove a point. A private institution is different as it isn’t a government-run facility. They have to meet certain rules but not the same that the government itself has to abide by. A private religious school can enforce their own religious beliefs (on both student and teachers) that a public school can not. 20 minutes ago, Justafan said: Is this the 'conversation' you were so hell-bent on having? Why are you opposed to detailed conversation? What’s wrong with backing up an opinion with details? 20 minutes ago, Justafan said: How predictable and sad that it would go this way. It's incredibly telling to me that the same people who so ardently argue for legally mandated respect are incapable of showing any themselves. Sigh… Edited December 20, 2023 by Starkiller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 40 minutes ago, Starkiller said: Back then both parties had both liberals and conservatives. I honestly can’t comprehend how that worked, but that’s how it was. Kennedy and LBJ both supported civil rights regulations and were both told that the Democratic Party would lose support of the South for a generation if that happened. It passed with support of socially liberal Republicans. And Dems did lose the South for way longer than a generation now. The conservative Dems of that era ran against their own party with 3rd party Dixiecrat candidates. And eventually the conservatives all became Republicans and the GOP swung hard right on all social issues. And if you don’t believe me, look it up for yourself… This is a convenient misquoting of history. All the invented social issues of today weren't a thing back then and parties were split between business interests and workers rights mainly. It's not a fair or correct characterization that liberals supported civil rights and conservatives opposed them. Quote “tyranny of the state” = forcing people to let other people live their lives. Feel free to explain how not using pronouns stops anyone from living their lives. 44 minutes ago, Starkiller said: actually the Constitution was designed to prevent the “tyranny of the majority”. And that’s what you are defending. Again, this is incorrect. Madison wrote about the tyranny of the majority. That certainly had influence but the constitution was written specifically because the original founders saw the King of England as a tyrant and wanted to ensure that couldn't happen again. 46 minutes ago, Starkiller said: A private institution is different as it isn’t a government-run facility. They have to meet certain rules but not the same that the government itself has to abide by. A private religious school can enforce their own religious beliefs (on both student and teachers) that a public school can not. Good. We agree on something. 47 minutes ago, Starkiller said: Why are you opposed to detailed conversation? What’s wrong with backing up an opinion with details? Because it always devolves into this. Are you satisfied? Has your mind been shifted? I've been insulted, berated, harassed, and painted as an extremist in this thread. Why in the world would I WANT to put myself through that just to listen to the same old talking points over and over again? You can sigh if you want about me talking about respect but if you wanted to have a conversation, you wouldn't have started off by insenuating I'm a fascist. No, this is what many of you are. Your character is blazing bright in this thread. It is so egregious for a teacher to not use pronouns that they should be fired, shunned, and fined up to 250,000 dollars but it's completely okay to call someone a retard, a nazi fascist, or continually insult them for the crime of disagreeing with you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Earl Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Starkiller said: Which seems fair if it’s intentional. Is it really that hard to respect other people’s beliefs when they don’t impinge on your own? Except it does infringe on my belief telling me I have to refer to whatever stupid pronoun they identify with. I believe a person is born either a female or male, and nothing can change that. Refusing to call someone by their preferred pronoun is not impinging any more than telling me I have to call them that. Edited December 20, 2023 by Little Earl WG53, and Jamalisms 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Earl Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Starkiller said: Democrats were pissed that they couldn’t treat black people as slaves anymore. That they had to let black people vote. That they had to serve black people at restaurants. That they had to hire qualified black people. That they had to let gay people marry. We needed laws to keep minorities’ rights from being infringed by the majority. Yes, laws are necessary to keep your beliefs from trampling mine. Conservatives love bitching about “culture war” issues, but in the end it’s always about whether you respect other people’s rights and beliefs or not. FIFY as Democrats were always the party of slavery. The most racist President was Woodrow Wilson, a Democrat. More recently Robert KKK Byrd was a high ranking Senator who was a Democrat that was not conservative. Edited December 20, 2023 by Little Earl titanruss 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Little Earl said: FIFY as Democrats were always the party of slavery. The most racist President was Woodrow Wilson, a Democrat. More recently Robert KKK Byrd was a high ranking Senator who was a Democrat that was not conservative. History and context aren't your friends. Starkiller, and titanruss 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strunk'sDessert Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Little Earl said: Except it does infringe on my belief telling me I have to refer to whatever stupid pronoun they identify with. I believe a person is born either a female or male, and nothing can change that. Refusing to call someone by their preferred pronoun is not impinging any more than telling me I have to call them that. And that other person has the right to call you a whiny, little cunt in return. Gotta love that 1st amendment! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Earl Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 13 minutes ago, Strunk'sDessert said: And that other person has the right to call you a whiny, little cunt in return. Gotta love that 1st amendment! Yes they can.....at the risk of me breaking their nose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 31 minutes ago, Little Earl said: Yes they can.....at the risk of me breaking their nose. I love internet tough guys. begooode, and Jamalisms 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted December 21, 2023 Report Share Posted December 21, 2023 7 hours ago, Justafan said: This is a convenient misquoting of history. All the invented social issues of today weren't a thing back then and parties were split between business interests and workers rights mainly. It's not a fair or correct characterization that liberals supported civil rights and conservatives opposed them. No, this is simply our history. And the parties reorganized based overwhelmingly on the response to the Civil Rights Act. The GOP became the party of "small government" as opposition to federal desegregation, civil rights, and Roe v Wade. They have made it clear today they don't give a shit about "small government", just in imposing their own beliefs. 7 hours ago, Justafan said: Feel free to explain how not using pronouns stops anyone from living their lives. Well I'm not huge fan of pronouns, in general. It's largely unnecessary and leads to more confusion and annoyance than it does anything beneficial. That said, if we are going to refer to people by "miss" or "mister" anyway then why shouldn't trans people get to pick their own pronoun? 7 hours ago, Justafan said: Again, this is incorrect. Madison wrote about the tyranny of the majority. That certainly had influence but the constitution was written specifically because the original founders saw the King of England as a tyrant and wanted to ensure that couldn't happen again. The founders set up a form of government based on majority rule (the government being elected representatives of the majority of voters), not a king. Thus any limitations they set on government was a way to prevent the tyranny of the majority. 7 hours ago, Justafan said: Because it always devolves into this. Are you satisfied? Has your mind been shifted? I've been insulted, berated, harassed, and painted as an extremist in this thread. Why in the world would I WANT to put myself through that just to listen to the same old talking points over and over again? You can sigh if you want about me talking about respect but if you wanted to have a conversation, you wouldn't have started off by insenuating I'm a fascist. No, this is what many of you are. Your character is blazing bright in this thread. It is so egregious for a teacher to not use pronouns that they should be fired, shunned, and fined up to 250,000 dollars but it's completely okay to call someone a retard, a nazi fascist, or continually insult them for the crime of disagreeing with you. No one has painted you as an extremist. And I never even remotely insinuated that you were a fascist. Stop being a drama queen. You routinely jump to conclusions that people are attacking you. And as far as I've seen, the only person who insulted you is someone who never even posts. As for calling people fascists, I reserve the right to call anyone a fascist if they act like a fascist. You clearly are a more traditional conservative, not a MAGA-type. But the fact that you blindly refuse to see that the MAGA mob that controls the GOP fits the traits of fascism to a tee is entirely on you. You refuse to to define fascism for whatever reason even though you clearly don't side with their fascist tendencies. And I have no particular problem with you disagreeing with me. But that doesn't mean I won't call you out when I do. If you won't defend your position then that's not on me. MadMax 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted December 21, 2023 Report Share Posted December 21, 2023 7 hours ago, Little Earl said: Except it does infringe on my belief telling me I have to refer to whatever stupid pronoun they identify with. I believe a person is born either a female or male, and nothing can change that. Refusing to call someone by their preferred pronoun is not impinging any more than telling me I have to call them that. yes ma'am... MadMax 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted December 21, 2023 Report Share Posted December 21, 2023 6 hours ago, Little Earl said: FIFY as Democrats were always the party of slavery. The most racist President was Woodrow Wilson, a Democrat. More recently Robert KKK Byrd was a high ranking Senator who was a Democrat that was not conservative. Yes, southern Democrats were always the party of slavery and the KKK. They were conservatives. MadMax 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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