tgo Posted July 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, Titans279 said: Nothing he says shows that he cares about either the Vietnamese people or Afghan people, and his actions certainly didn't. I'm confused why you think he cares about them! It makes no sense. What was the viable solution? Risk tens of thousands of American lives to evacuate every last "good" or "U.S.-Allied" Afghan to Western countries in a matter of days in a covid-pandemic environment where there was a housing crisis going on already among our own people? We have hosted tens of thousands of Afghans on US military bases and cared for/housed them, we evacuated thousands upon thousands of people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted July 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: Yep. I can't blame them either. They knew we were leaving and their government wasn't even involved in the negotiations. Why would anyone fight for such bullshit? I would think they would fight for their families and for human rights, for freedom and Democratic governance, the rights and futures of their wives and daughters, etc. - but I guess they're not wired like that. The basic truth though is that the country can't self-sustain as an economic power in order to have stable government though - it's a desert wasteland akin to the surface of Mars and an impoverished conglomerate of tribes whose primary economic output is narcotics. Edited July 21, 2022 by tgo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted July 21, 2022 Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 Afghanistan withdrawal was disastrous, both in terms of giving allies pause and our enemies encouragement. I think it gave Putin encouragement. I would have preferred at the very least to have blown up our weapons and not have Americans killed. It sucked. I also said at the time, and still believe, we should never have been in there as long as we did, and it will not be a campaign issue of importance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted July 21, 2022 Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, tgo said: I would think they would fight for their families and for human rights, for freedom and Democratic governance, the rights and futures of their wives and daughters, etc. - but I guess they're not wired like that. As history showed they had a better chance keeping their families alive by dropping their weapons regardless of any liberal notions of freedom. As soon as the Afghan Government was left out of negotiations it was always going to be a complete disaster. There was no stopping the train either way, but we cut their nuts when we proceeded with negotiations without even allowing them to the table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted July 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 The whole war aim was totally flawed from the beginning. It should never have been a sustained occupation. It should have been just a constant bombardment of terrorist orgs/enemies of the United States by an army of drones and other Air Force assets/cruise missiles/whatever that ensured that evil wasn't able to sleep and had no safe haven. Starkiller 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted July 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, IsntLifeFunny said: As history showed they had a better chance keeping their families alive by dropping their weapons regardless of any liberal notions of freedom. As soon as the Afghan Government was left out of negotiations it was always going to be a complete disaster. There was no stopping the train either way, but we cut their nuts when we proceeded with negotiations without even allowing them to the table. Eh, they prioritized barely surviving as a Theocratic slave vs. fighting for freedom. To each their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted July 21, 2022 Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, tgo said: The whole war aim was totally flawed from the beginning. It should never have been a sustained occupation. It should have been just a constant bombardment of terrorist orgs/enemies of the United States by an army of drones and other Air Force assets/cruise missiles/whatever that ensured that evil wasn't able to sleep and had no safe haven. And taking out bin laden when they had the chance. I think I’ll get some bloodwork done. I have agreed with you recently. Something’s wrong…. tgo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted July 21, 2022 Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 25 minutes ago, tgo said: What was the viable solution? Risk tens of thousands of American lives to evacuate every last "good" or "U.S.-Allied" Afghan to Western countries in a matter of days in a covid-pandemic environment where there was a housing crisis going on already among our own people? We have hosted tens of thousands of Afghans on US military bases and cared for/housed them, we evacuated thousands upon thousands of people. In a matter of days? I guess you conveniently forgot the reporting that the Biden admin kept the planning of getting these people out of there on the back burner. You're on stronger ground just admitting that you don't care about those people because they aren't Americans, that's what Biden did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted July 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Titans279 said: In a matter of days? I guess you conveniently forgot the reporting that the Biden admin kept the planning of getting these people out of there on the back burner. You're on stronger ground just admitting that you don't care about those people because they aren't Americans, that's what Biden did. But the precondition to that decision (or lack thereof) on planning to get even more US Allied folks out of Afghanistan was that they had a lot more time. That was the baseline intel assessment for discussions/planning about the logistics of executing it - right? Btw, I don't not care about them because they aren't Americans. I care quite a bit about freedom loving people around the world and people who want to leave their patch of Earth better than they found it. But I think only a pretty small minority of worthy people were left behind comparatively (certainly not the majority of the country or their military wouldn't have dissolved) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted July 21, 2022 Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 32 minutes ago, tgo said: Eh, they prioritized barely surviving as a Theocratic slave vs. fighting for freedom. To each their own. Once they were left out of the negotiations it was inevitable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted July 21, 2022 Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 The main problem with the Afghan withdrawal wasn’t in the decisions being made in DC. As soon as the ruling government pulled up stakes and fled the country it was going to be a mess. The Taliban was always going to roll up the “rural” parts of the country quickly but Kabul wasn’t going to collapse overnight like it did if the acting government stayed there. Nothing Biden could have done was going to change that without another war. Regardless, staying was not an option. And they should have left years earlier, but it is done now. tgo, IsntLifeFunny, and oldschool 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted July 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 Hell yeah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted July 21, 2022 Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 This is hilarious 1c76e7f0933c6ebf07dbea3619f4b783.mp4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted July 21, 2022 Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 Organizations working to assist the Afghans who helped up warned the Biden admin about the slow process of getting approvals and they did nothing to speed it up before all this happened. It's weird how hard it is for you guys to accept that Biden didn't care about these guys. He literally said we had no responsibility to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted July 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Titans279 said: Organizations working to assist the Afghans who helped up warned the Biden admin about the slow process of getting approvals and they did nothing to speed it up before all this happened. It's weird how hard it is for you guys to accept that Biden didn't care about these guys. He literally said we had no responsibility to them. Nobody cares. They should have cared enough about their own well being to have responsibility to themselves and their families to not cowardly surrender to medieval barbarians. If people aren't willing to fight for themselves, no one is going to be willing to fight and die on their behalf forever. The Afghans have had chance after chance after chance over the decades to live outside the rule of the Taliban but they have squandered it time and again through their own cowardice and moral bankruptcy and are clearly willing to live under Taliban rule forever - so let them. Edited July 21, 2022 by tgo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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