Top to Bottom, It's about talent far more than Coaching

[2ToneTerror]

Looking back at last season up through today's game, I think the debate about what our biggest issue is- bad coaching or lack of talent- is over.

While both are issues...it's really about the talent.

 

This offense from last year up though today is top notch.  This franchise has never seen anything like it and may not again for a while.  And that's not because of Arthur Smith.  It's because few other teams have such a wealth of offensive talent, save the Chiefs. 

And to add to that- this offense has probably not a played a game this year with more than 75% of it's talent- we've been without Lewan, without Brown a game, without J.Smith occasionally, without Humphries for stretches....but it didn't matter.  This team can hang 30+ on ANYONE, ANY GAME.  It is unreal how explosive and balanced we are even with consistent injuries.  Arthur Smith calls some good games and some bad ones.  Calls some great plays and some terrible ones.  But this talent overcomes the bad and amplifies the good.  With this talent, most OC could do quite well.  That's the luxury.

 

Which takes you to the defense.  There is not doubt that the lack of a true DC has been terrible.  The game schemes, the lack of rotation on DL, playing too soft on coverage, line backers and safeties often out of position and whiffing on tackles.  Inconsistent effort from one game to the next.  All coaching issues.

But that is truly second to the jaw-dropping lack of defensive talent this team has on the field.  We simply have noone on the DLine other than Simmons.  Without Adoree, you have a good #2 in Butler and a decent slot guy in King (only recently added).  We have minor talent at ILB.  Jayon and Evans were exposed as being over-hyped and incapable of adjusting to anything out of their comfort zone.  Byard has been exposed in the same way. Vaccaro too.

The reality is that if Pees came back tomorrow and took us into the playoffs, I would to expect this defense to not be much better.  We can see now very clearly what Pees had to do all last year: hide out extensive defensive weaknesses.  He had to put the ILB's in perfect position...the safeties too.  Exact rolls.  Scheme to everyone's strengths.  Without Pees and with injuries...you can see the issues with Evans, Jayon, Byard and Vac...they cannot play out of their comfort zone.  And their comfort zone is narrow.

Thanks to a terrible offseason and the Adoree injury, we have even less talent than last year.  

 

My point?  This team is exactly what you saw today.  It gets no better.  We have an astounding offense and an astoundingly bad defense...and that is not going to change.

If you saw the post game conference today, you saw Vrabel well beyond frustrated...he has halfway to broken.  He had no answers.  Because regardless of his defensive coaching talent (or lack thereof) he doesn't have the personnel to execute it.  The cupboard is just too bare.  

 

I think it's still a testament to him and some of the coaching staff to still be 8-4 and atop the division in spite of all of this (and COVID).

 

So what  do the Titans do from here out?  The rest of the season and into the playoffs...

 

I don't think they have much choice: BALL the FUCK OUT on offense.  You have the talent level rivaled only by the Chiefs (or maybe not) so play like it.  That doesn't just mean putting up 30+ points.  That means putting up 14 in the first quarter, 14 in the second, and ect.  Start with the pedal to the floor from the first snap.  That does not mean reduce Henry's function. He is a blue-moon RB that can score from anywhere on the field at any time...or take over a second half by battering the defense into submission.  He can be used as either.

Forget ball control offense.  Forget keep-away offense.  We don't have the defense to play that.  
Play like the opposing team will likely score on 70% of their possessions...because they probably will.  

The Chiefs can and have pulled this off...and so can the Titans.  We've seen it may games now.

 

The defense?  The only thing that matters is turnovers at this point.  That defense should be geared to play for that every down.  Big blitzes.  Go for strips on every tackle (at the detriment of cleaning tackling)  Play with over-the-top aggression and gimmicks.  It's kind of pathetic and desperate.  But that's exactly what we are.

Yep, they will get burned often.  How is that different than now?

 

Talent is the only thing that can save us...and it's almost all on the offensive side.   Coaching won't save us now.

[Eighteen]

There's some validity in parts of this post.

 

But all the defensive players you pointed out, how do you explain/justify such a massive drop off in their ability this year when almost all of them played at a high talent level just one year ago?

 

The common denominator here is we lost Pees, no DC to replace him, and idk how closely you follow the inner workings of the team but it seems in general fans aren't aware that we also lost like half of our position coaches on defense, who were immensely instrumental developing our talent on defense, and replaced them with scrubs with little to no experience or reputation position coaching in the NFL.

[Oiler FANatic]

29 minutes ago, 2ToneTerror said:

 

So what  do the Titans do from here out?  The rest of the season and into the playoffs...I don't think they have much choice: BALL the FUCK OUT on offense.  You have the talent level rivaled only by the Chiefs (or maybe not) so play like it.  That doesn't just mean putting up 30+ points. 

 

The Titans offense is good, but not nearly on the same level as the Chiefs. Ryan Tannehill is good, but he's no Patrick Mahomes. Not by a long shot.

[2ToneTerror]

18 minutes ago, Eighteen said:

But all the defensive players you pointed out, how do you explain/justify such a massive drop off in their ability this year when almost all of them played at a high talent level just one year ago?

 No doubt the drop in coaching is an issue.

But like I said, Pees had Casey and Adoree last year and was able to keep said talent in their comfort zone.

Thats not a bad thing...but that’s not a luxury we have now.

 

I mean think about what you are insinuating here: professional football vets with years of experience can only execute and play if they are coached perfectly?

Like they are computers that must be programmed week to week or they cannot operate?

Byard, for example is a vet.
He knows the position and knows the game. He did not forget when Pees left.

What he lost was Adoree and Casey with no replacement.  And now Jayon Brown for coverage.

Byard cannot adjust to this.

Most of our guys on D can’t.  The talent level isn’t high enough.

 

Now imagine replacing Arthur Smith with any other OC from any top 15 team.

Think they would stop hanging 30+ on everyone?

I think not.

[scine09]

I think losing three vets in Casey, Woodyard and Ryan has clearly had a negative impact.  Woodyard and Ryan were basically coaches on the field and Casey, while he obviously had a dropoff, was getting paid too much and probably had to go, certainly was a positive presence on the field.  While they likely got younger and faster, there's something to be said for knowing your assignments and just where to be at all times.  Particularly in a year like this when there was no OTAS, preseason games, etc.  In a way defensively it's almost like a transition year.  And couple that with disasters in both free agent signings at edge and this is what the result is.

 

I never thought that the defense was anything special last year.  And this year it's even worse.  You just have to hope that they can fix some of the problems with a full offseason from Fulton, Jackson hopefully coming back healthy, Simmons continuing to improve and reinforcements in the draft.  Evans is better IMO than what he's shown.  Landry plays too much.  Hopefully they can find a way to bring back Brown.  The question will be, who are the Titans veteran leaders going to be, though?  Right now they really only have one, Byard, and he's having likely the worst year he's had.  Probably trying to do too much.  Maybe Butler, but many people think he's gone although I'd try everything I can to keep him.

[Stan]

So the browns are that much  more talented than we are? Doubt it. The browns had a gameplan. They attacked us threw the air on their opening drive because that’s what you practice gameplan for and study:. They didn’t try to run the ball or force feed Chubb. They went after our weakness which is pass defense and pass rush. We on the other hand didn’t go after them till we were already down 4 scores. This isn’t a one time occurrence, this has happened multiple numerous times through the year. We have played down to teams like the Broncos, jags, Bengals and Texans.
 

We come in every game under prepared without any sense of how to attack the other team. We make half time adjustments when we’re so far behind we rely on comebacks instead of going into games making sure we had the foot on their throat and not the other way around. We’re not well coached and it shows from top to bottom. Croom left Pees left and we’ve suffered. Callinf plays isn’t easy and we went into the season thinking anybody could do it. We have plenty of talent a offense that can score in anybody in any second with talented receivers, talented tightends , a pro bowl running back pro bowl QB. We came into a season under prepared in many areas that have cost us games, pass rush and special teams, but that doesn’t change the fact that we’ve got more Than enough talent more than many teams and we are  not maximizing  it. 

[Stan]

It’s inexcusable to allow a 3rd and 12

to be so easily converted in a time when a stop gets you the ball back after you just scored 14 points in 5 minutes. This is where lack of a true defensive play caller a true defensive minded coach is lacking. In those situations you bring pressure and force Baker out of the pocket or to hurry the throw. If it’s it completed, more power to them but you don’t allow them to get 13 yards in soft zones without any pressure. That’s not talent, that’s coaching, you can’t sit back and wait for the other team to make mistakes, the NFL will eat you alive if that’s your motto. It’s frustrating as a fan to sit watch a team go 8/12 on 3rd downs and not just short yardage we’re talking long yardage gains. This is by far the worst Titans defense I’ve ever seen and that goes back to the cap hell years and no name guys. The difference is back then we had coaching but lacked talent. Stop defending this coaching staff. I am one of the few who speak out against Vrabel and his goons even after victories. We are not an aggressive team and Pees leaving has made us look so scared to even go after low level QBs let alone top tier. 

[OILERMAN]

3 hours ago, scine09 said:

I think losing three vets in Casey, Woodyard and Ryan has clearly had a negative impact. 

 

I think this has absolutely nothing to do at all with the defensive mediocrity 

[2ToneTerror]

36 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

 

I think this has absolutely nothing to do at all with the defensive mediocrity 

What do you think it is, then?

[Titan_Aussie]

This offseason, we need to do all we can to keep this offence together, and build the defence through the draft. Let Jayon, Clowney, Daquon walk and focus on bringing in some new guys. Adoree is a tough one, especially if he doesnt play a snap this season but that could result in a team friendly contract (Feels unlikely) and i think if Adoree leaves that opens the door for Desmond King.

JRob got a busy offseason coming up. Defence has to be the focus. Has to be.

[Guts]

We run a very vanilla defense, IMO. Its just too easy for opposing offenses to attack.

[Supdawg]

Disagree 100%. IMO, coaching > talent at the NFL level. Sure, there are always exceptions to this rule, but a good coach can make a not so talented team play better than their potential talent cap. 

 

I've been watching pro football my entire life and when you see entire units/ position groups succeeding it's typically because there is a good coach behind the scenes. I refuse to believe that we have bottom of the NFL defensive talent, but that is how we play. That is an indictment on coaching and no one on this Earth can convince me otherwise. Players make plays, but coaches put players in position to make plays. 

 

I am also 100% convinced that there is NO way on Earth that Vrabel and Bowen have enough time and experience to replace everything Pees was doing as a coach. There just isn't enough time of the day. 

 

Sick of watching the best offense the Titans have ever had by a wide margin get wasted with a pathetically coached defense. 

[Guts]

Defensive line is our biggest weakness with Simmons being constantly doubled team.  No one else can get to the QB or collapse the pocket consistently. 

[code]

I fall to the talent side.

 

Name one guy playing to Pro Bowl level.

 

The two big offseason acquisitions - both largely failed. - now neither on team.

 

No Jackson. No Fulton who was to have replaced Ryan. 

 

No doubt we miss Dean Peas. Injuries have been problematic. And the depth chart isn't particularly deep.

 

 

[oldschool]

6 minutes ago, Guts said:

Defensive line is our biggest weakness with Simmons being constantly doubled team.  No one else can get to the QB or collapse the pocket consistently. 

 

Scheme is a huge part of it. I see teams without elite pass rushers get guys to the QB multiple times a game.