A Discussion of Systemic Racism

[Number9]

@El Guapo is a knowledgeable and highly intelligent poster.  He and I share a handful of the same opinions, Immigration, America First in trade and Law and Order.  

 

I have a lot of hope for this conversation because of El Guapo's brilliant mind and his communication skills.  The reason I want to talk with him is because he's hands down the most sensible Republican leaning poster.  I say leaning because he sure is not voting for Biden.  Also, I had a thread about racism and straight asked him was he against the police killing a disproportional number of black people.  His reply was a quick statical example of the number which showed the police killed a whole bunch of white people as well.  

 

Although an examination of these numbers could show some strange percentages when using populations of the two races, I was really floored.  I looked into this and found cases of police shooting unarmed whites in America.  That's wrong too, but seems more acceptable to some whites.  But I realized this man is intelligent and quick to respond with facts.  So, I'm going to skip the howdy do's and just dive in.

 

I have a video I will post below that goes into some American history.  I have said, black people need to do better.  I even know exactly what one black person could do to move from poverty to a very decent upper middle class living.  But it is my opinion that if I trained 10,000 people to do it, systematic racism would come in to stamp it out.

 

***Please do not come into this discussion with a bunch of one line attacks at El Guapo or especially me because everyone knows how sensitive I am.  Instead, let us and anyone wants to participate with real intent to raise the level of awareness in the community have a conversation.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Number9

[Number9]

 

[El Guapo]

Powerful video. 1964 was not a long time ago.

 

In 1987, I interviewed for a job in Richmond. Prestigious surgical group. Returned with my wife a second time. They were very interested.Then one of the partners asked me where I was born. When I told him, his eyes glazed over. The rest of the weekend was full of filler bs conversation. I told my wife that I was not getting the job and she felt I was too sensitive and overreacting. I received a one sentence letter within 3 days confirming my thoughts.
 

I received a better offer from a group here in Nashville. More prestigious. Better job. I am still here. We have a large group consisting of white, black, Native American, Asian American,  men and women. Better city.

 

I get it. But I did not linger on it, said fuck em, and kept on. 
 

I am not for ignoring the past, whitewashing it. When its obvious and egregious, call it and go on. Today, things are a hell of a lot different. I would like to see a day when one can be critical of someone and not fear bring called a racist or an anti-semite.  And I would like to see people not assuming that racism was the reason that something happened when other explanations were possible.

 

I still believe we as Americans are on the right path and I do not believe getting there involves destroying our past or the present. And I still believe we are a great and wonderful, generous nation.
 

 

[MadMax]

6 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Powerful video. 1964 was not a long time ago.

 

In 1987, I interviewed for a job in Richmond. Prestigious surgical group. Returned with my wife a second time. They were very interested.Then one of the partners asked me where I was born. When I told him, his eyes glazed over. The rest of the weekend was full of filler bs conversation. I told my wife that I was not getting the job and she felt I was too sensitive and overreacting. I received a one sentence letter within 3 days confirming my thoughts.
 

I received a better offer from a group here in Nashville. More prestigious. Better job. I am still here. We have a large group consisting of white, black, Native American, Asian American,  men and women. Better city.

 

I get it. But I did not linger on it, said fuck em, and kept on. 
 

I am not for ignoring the past, whitewashing it. When its obvious and egregious, call it and go on. Today, things are a hell of a lot different. I would like to see a day when one can be critical of someone and not fear bring called a racist or an anti-semite.  And I would like to see people not assuming that racism was the reason that something happened when other explanations were possible.

 

I still believe we as Americans are on the right path and I do not believe getting there involves destroying our past or the present. And I still believe we are a great and wonderful, generous nation.
 

 

I pretty much agree with everything you just said.

[Denali]

21 hours ago, Number9 said:

 

I see, so people in the black communities smoked crack and went to jail for it, and they want to blame the person who gave it or sold it to them.

 

Wah wah wah.  We're the victim.

 

Hey, I have a better idea.  How about not smoking crack??!  How about doing something else, umm.... you know,  umm.... more productive.

 

Nah, preposterous.  Better we just smoke crack, go to jail, and blame whitey.  It's not our fault.  It's the "flood of drugs".  We are mindless robots that have no will of our own.  We're too stupid to know any better.  No fair!!  Whitey needs to make better crime bills so that the suppliers stop presenting us with these drugs.

 

Seriously.  Fucking pathetic.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Denali

[Number9]

My topic of discussion is systematic racism.  There are all types of things an individual black person can do to try to better themselves.  The problem comes when one group, only because of the color of their skin is systematically abused.  When @El Guapo talks about his experience at one firm, it doesn't even begin to put him in the position of a child who grew up with a crackhead mother.  You have a medical degree.  You didn't grow up hungry by the thousands because the government enticed your parents to use a highly addictive drug.  

 

Destroying our past.  I think the black people would love to destroy the devastation of crack.  What is so wonderful about the legal system using your race to fill up prisons?  What if the government did the same thing to KY, TN and IN?  Actively enticed the residents who had already lived decades and decades of systematic racism to start using crack.  Then changed the laws so that a person with $22 worth of crack was tried and convicted of drug dealing, sentenced as felons to fill up private for profit prisons.  

 

Oh, look at Dr. Wilson.  He's a fine gentleman of color who has achieved great things.  Oh, I see.  You can't even say what was done to a race of people.  "Let's just move on."  

 

There are identifiable events that happen constantly to black people that stops them from advancing.  Systematic events.  

[Denali]

9 minutes ago, Number9 said:

... the government enticed your parents to use a highly addictive drug. 

Really?

 

OK, let's hear it.  How did the government "entice" the black community to smoke crack?  Are you saying it was all part of their master evil plan?

 

Until the black community starts to take responsibility for their choices and actions, this crap will never end.  It's time to grow up and stop behaving like a bunch of bitches.  You're right.  Slavery ended over 150 years ago.  It's time for the black communities to start acting like it.

[Number9]

I invited @El Guapo because of his intelligence and articulate skills, two areas he far exceeds my limited abilities.  Also because he has several degrees of study and has demonstrated his ability to stay focused on a topic.  I have presented a document which talks about the CIA flooding black communities with crack cocaine to fund a war.  I think it would take a considerable amount of money to fund a war.  That's a lot of money to take out of one community.  Why not just use tax money?  What advantage was it to get so many black people addicted to a drug to fund a war in South America?  We are down there right now building a wall to keep those people out.

 

Should black people at the very least be honored for funding the war?  Their sacrifice be publicly acknowledged?  Pictures of crack babies shown to honor their heroism?

[Number9]

Okay.  Ignorant people will be placed on ignore.  @Denali even though I have grandfathered you as a Titans/fan/friend I am temporarily placing you one ignore, short for ignorant.

[El Guapo]

Well, I am not apologizing for not having a crackhead mother. And I do have a medical degree. But we were never even considered well off. My mother worked on an assembly line in Chicago making transistors. All they wanted was a chance and freedom.  Education helps immensely. So does an immigrant drive to succeed.

 

I get the difficulty of succeeding when one starts behind. But at some point, one has to start taking personal responsibility.  Illiteracy and single parent homes is a recipe for failure.  Lowering academic standards is not a solution. The US has spent trillions on war on poverty over the years and we still have an issue- it may be worse. But if I said we need to look at doing something different since what we are doing is not working, I suspect I would get called a racist. Politicians know better but will not rock the boat.

 

As for drugs, if you speak to any addiction specialist, the first thing is quit blaming others, situations, parents and admit you have an issue. And in a sense, Denali has a point. If you dont take a drug, you wont get addicted. 

 

 

[Number9]

8 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Well, I am not apologizing for not having a crackhead mother. And I do have a medical degree. But we were never even considered well off. My mother worked on an assembly line in Chicago making transistors. All they wanted was a chance and freedom.  Education helps immensely. So does an immigrant drive to succeed.

 

I get the difficulty of succeeding when one starts behind. But at some point, one has to start taking personal responsibility.  Illiteracy and single parent homes is a recipe for failure.  Lowering academic standards is not a solution. The US has spent trillions on war on poverty over the years and we still have an issue- it may be worse. But if I said we need to look at doing something different since what we are doing is not working, I suspect I would get called a racist. Politicians know better but will not rock the boat.

 

As for drugs, if you speak to any addiction specialist, the first thing is quit blaming others, situations, parents and admit you have an issue. And in a sense, Denali has a point. If you dont take a drug, you wont get addicted. 

 

 

The government introduced a highly addictive drug into the black community.  Gave it away free.  Then changed the laws so the penalty for possessing $22 worth was a felony.  I was paying $20 for a bottle of nice wine at that time.  $22 made you guilty of possession with intent to distribute.  Basically it was one race of people who came under this law.

 

Yes, you know how to solve the problem.  I know how to solve the problem as it exist.  The real problem is systematic racism keeps moving the bar.  I think when you say racism, it makes some white people think they are being called individually racist.  They are not.  I don't consider you racist.  I do think white people benefit from it, but intent has to be in the heart.  I'm explaining, maybe feebly the way the government(men in power) did and have done things that are detrimental to black people advancing.  Detrimental to them even doing the study of the great motivators like Napoleon Hill, W. Clement Stone or Dale Carnegie because their environment was a wasteland because of a crack epidemic.

 

A hand.  Give a man a fish, no teach him to fish.  No, flood his community with a cheap highly addictive drug.  I was living in NYC when the crack "epidemic" was first being talked about as this monster drug.  I read an article in the newspaper and it said a dose of crack cost $3.  THREE DOLLARS!!  That's why a crackhead would steal a shovel laying in someone's yard so he could sell it for a few dollars, whatever.

 

Just consider that shit.  A heroin addict at that time would easily have a $100 a day habit.  People addicted to heroin would go out and commit crimes to get $100.  Now, the government put more highly addicted people, in much larger numbers on the street willing to do anything for $3.

 

I can write no more.  If you cannot understand that point, you don't want to understand.

[El Guapo]

Dude, take it easy.  

[pat]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking

[Number9]

44 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Dude, take it easy.  

I only type what comes out.  2+2=4  I have posted I video explaining it.  I have explained it.  What else could I say.  I am not going to re-explain that point over and over.  

[Number9]

Systematic.  It't not calling individual white people racist.  Most white people are good, non racist.  Systems are controlled by the powerful.  If they are doing something, it's to keep the rich rich.  Like free or cheap, cheap labor.  Watch this short explanation of how "so called free slaves couldn't progress."