AJ Brown vs Brees

[Oilertattoo]

AJ sure has that moxy doesn't he!

[IrishTitansFan]

1 hour ago, abc2330 said:

  The issue is that basically any statistical data you can find shows that unarmed black people are not senselessly murdered by police, and are their own worse enemy by far in terms of murder rate.  If there is more to the story, then they need to share it.  We are all human, we can empathize with someone who isn't treated fairly.  White people don't understand what it's like to be treated differently, so they should be encouraging black people to speak about what that's like.  Not encouraging this finger pointing, angry anti-racism and anti-police mob.  That's clearly not going well either.

Any idea as to why that is?

 

Clue: It rhymes with: "Menturies of tystematic eppression"

Edited June 5, 2020 by IrishTitansFan

[BudsOilers]

It's a testament to the times that we live in that people parsed out what Brees said into some anti-black rhetoric.  If you watch/listen to the whole exchange, it's very clear what Brees was saying and that he very clearly supported the social justice agenda.  He essentially was cyber bullied into apologizing for something that really wasn't offensive and was well within his rights to free speech.  

 

The fact is that a significant part of the population believes that the national anthem and flag represents the absolute best aspects of the USA and not some symbol of hatred and oppression.  The fact that supporters of BLM refuse to even acknowledge this view point is one big reason that the anthem protests failed to make any significant change on the actual issue at hand. 

 

One can argue that the Confederate flag or the Nazi flag represents hate and white supremacy although I'm sure some Southerners do not view the Confederate flag that way.  The American flag, to the vast majority of people, does not.  The "anthem protest" per se was designed to instigate frank racial discussions and changes to the system to ensure equal rights and justice for all citizens regardless of color.  The last two weeks have done far more to do that, thanks in part to the pandemic slow news cycle, than the anthem deal ever did because it alienated the very people that needed to be listening.

 

 

[TerryBoats]

13 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

Any idea as to why that is?

 

Clue: It rhymes with: "Menturies of tystematic eppression"

It's blanket statements like this which fly directly over people's heads and don't resonate with them.  People don't want to be blamed and won't be made to feel guilty about things that they had no involvement in, particularly when the support for them is circumstantial at best.  What does resonate is people connecting on a personal level, sharing their experiences of injustice and discrimination.  That opens peoples minds and makes them think about the need for a change come election time.  Calling everyone racist and dismissing their concerns for that of their own is only going to ensure that Trump is in office for another 4 years.  Democrats had that amount of time to convince the people who voted for him that they made the wrong decision , but they made the same mistakes which caused voters to wipe the floor with Hillary.

[GOAT9]

24 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

It's blanket statements like this which fly directly over people's heads and don't resonate with them.  People don't want to be blamed and won't be made to feel guilty about things that they had no involvement in, particularly when the support for them is circumstantial at best.  What does resonate is people connecting on a personal level, sharing their experiences of injustice and discrimination.  That opens peoples minds and makes them think about the need for a change come election time.  Calling everyone racist and dismissing their concerns for that of their own is only going to ensure that Trump is in office for another 4 years.  Democrats had that amount of time to convince the people who voted for him that they made the wrong decision , but they made the same mistakes which caused voters to wipe the floor with Hillary.

This right here is exactly why Trump got elected and racked up the support he has had. Trump didn't win because of Emails, Benghazi, or Russians. Trump won because he won the crucial swing states in the Midwest full of blue collar workers. And he won those states because he was talking about getting their jobs back while Hillary was busy calling everybody sexist, racist, deplorables. That's why she lost. Youre not going to win over people by acting self righteous and calling them names. 

[CreepingDeath]

41 minutes ago, BudAdams said:

It's a testament to the times that we live in that people parsed out what Brees said into some anti-black rhetoric.  If you watch/listen to the whole exchange, it's very clear what Brees was saying and that he very clearly supported the social justice agenda.  He essentially was cyber bullied into apologizing for something that really wasn't offensive and was well within his rights to free speech.  

 

The fact is that a significant part of the population believes that the national anthem and flag represents the absolute best aspects of the USA and not some symbol of hatred and oppression.  The fact that supporters of BLM refuse to even acknowledge this view point is one big reason that the anthem protests failed to make any significant change on the actual issue at hand. 

 

One can argue that the Confederate flag or the Nazi flag represents hate and white supremacy although I'm sure some Southerners do not view the Confederate flag that way.  The American flag, to the vast majority of people, does not.  The "anthem protest" per se was designed to instigate frank racial discussions and changes to the system to ensure equal rights and justice for all citizens regardless of color.  The last two weeks have done far more to do that, thanks in part to the pandemic slow news cycle, than the anthem deal ever did because it alienated the very people that needed to be listening.

 

 

What a joke.  "He's using his first amendment so you shouldn't bully poor Brees!"  You do understand that Brees is not under arrest for his statements, right?

 

And you are telling me that you PREFER the mass protests (and the resulting problems with it) over the peaceful kneeling?  Wow.  Stick to your Mariota obsession.  

[CreepingDeath]

2 minutes ago, GOAT9 said:

This right here is exactly why Trump got elected and racked up the support he has had. Trump didn't win because of Emails, Benghazi, or Russians. Trump won because he won the crucial swing states in the Midwest full of blue collar workers. And he won those states because he was talking about getting their jobs back while Hillary was busy calling everybody sexist, racist, deplorables. That's why she lost. Youre not going to win over people by acting self righteous and calling them names. 

You just have to call the "right" people names.  Like rapists:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-mexicans-rapists-remark-reference-2018-4

Or Pocahontas:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42146195

Or... well, this list could go on for a very long time.  What was your point?  Appeal to racists and lie about jobs (Coal, factories, etc)?

[BudsOilers]

12 minutes ago, CreepingDeath said:

What a joke.  "He's using his first amendment so you shouldn't bully poor Brees!"  You do understand that Brees is not under arrest for his statements, right?

 

And you are telling me that you PREFER the mass protests (and the resulting problems with it) over the peaceful kneeling?  Wow.  Stick to your Mariota obsession.  

Wrong douche nozzle.........First off, you completely misrepresented the Brees comments and I'm sure that was intentional because you are an aforementioned douche.....

 

Brees has a right to an opinion on the anthem/flag issue. one that has nothing to do with the systematic racism/equal justice issue.  Many Americans see things exactly the way Brees did and yes he was bullied into making a PC "apology" for something that was not offensive unless you are looking to be offended.

 

As for making systematic changes, yes the mass protests and 24/7 coverage and dialogue of the REAL ISSUE AT HAND is far more effective than players kneeling for an anthem ever did.  The messaging of the intended kneeling/sitting was completely lost on the folks who were offended by the method chosen as it didn't spurn any signfiicant changes in the system.  That is a fact, whether you like it or not.     

 

Nice to know you are stupid across the board, not only regarding football....Happy Friday

[IrishTitansFan]

2 hours ago, abc2330 said:

It's blanket statements like this which fly directly over people's heads and don't resonate with them.  People don't want to be blamed and won't be made to feel guilty about things that they had no involvement in, particularly when the support for them is circumstantial at best.  What does resonate is people connecting on a personal level, sharing their experiences of injustice and discrimination.  That opens peoples minds and makes them think about the need for a change come election time.  Calling everyone racist and dismissing their concerns for that of their own is only going to ensure that Trump is in office for another 4 years.  Democrats had that amount of time to convince the people who voted for him that they made the wrong decision , but they made the same mistakes which caused voters to wipe the floor with Hillary.

I never called anyone racist. 

 

The fact is: Black on black crime is high because socioeconomically they are way behind their white counterparts (due to centuries of systematic oppression that is still prevalent today) and has absolutely zero to do with the genetic colour of their skin. That's my point

Edited June 5, 2020 by IrishTitansFan

[TerryBoats]

24 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

I never called anyone racist. 

 

The fact is: Black on black crime is high because socioeconomically they are way behind their white counterparts and has absolutely zero to do with the colour of their skin. That's my point

I apologize.  They are, and I think that's the point that most people make who question that racism and police brutality is the #1 enemy of people.  I don't really have a dog in the fight, I just kind try to see things both ways.

[GOAT9]

1 hour ago, CreepingDeath said:

You just have to call the "right" people names.  Like rapists:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-mexicans-rapists-remark-reference-2018-4

Or Pocahontas:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42146195

Or... well, this list could go on for a very long time.  What was your point?  Appeal to racists and lie about jobs (Coal, factories, etc)?

You are stupid as fuck. My point was exactly what I said. Trump won because he won the Midwest swing states. He won those with talk about jobs and NAFTA. 

"a laundry list of changes he wants to bring to Washington like lower taxes, better trade deals."

Feel free to quote from Hillary's part that is going to address the needs and appeal to the Midwesterners that decided the election.

[IrishTitansFan]

Just now, abc2330 said:

I apologize.  They are, and I think that's the point that most people make who question that racism and police brutality is the #1 enemy of people.  I don't really have a dog in the fight, I just kind try to see things both ways.

Oh I understand completely. I hate sweeping generalizations but it just makes me so mad to see that there are people out there who actually think black people are born to be violent or criminals because they have a darker pigment

[GOAT9]

34 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

I never called anyone racist. 

 

The fact is: Black on black crime is high because socioeconomically they are way behind their white counterparts (due to centuries of systematic oppression that is still prevalent today) and has absolutely zero to do with the genetic colour of their skin. That's my point

Okay most reasonable people can agree to this. So would a better idea be for Black people to come to the table and say they have a socioeconomic problem and they need help from their countrymen to fix this? As opposed to calling white people racists that owe them everything and throwing tantrums until they get their way?

[bizzyeddie]

4 hours ago, BudAdams said:

 As for making systematic changes, yes the mass protests and 24/7 coverage and dialogue of the REAL ISSUE AT HAND is far more effective than players kneeling for an anthem ever did.  The messaging of the intended kneeling/sitting was completely lost on the folks who were offended by the method chosen as it didn't spurn any signfiicant changes in the system.  That is a fact, whether you like it or not.     

I agree the message was lost on those who didn't want to hear it but it was about the real issue at hand.  I feel it's all been a part of what has been building over time....but sure ..watching a black man being murdered by white cops is going to be far more effective in creating an immediate amount of change.

 

I don't think you can ignore the fact that BLM is a movement that has been building prior to this incident and part of it was the kneeling.

[BudsOilers]

7 minutes ago, bizzyeddie said:

I agree the message was lost on those who didn't want to hear it but it was about the real issue at hand.  I feel it's all been a part of what has been building over time....but sure ..watching a black man being murdered by white cops is going to be far more effective in creating an immediate amount of change.

 

I don't think you can ignore the fact that BLM is a movement that has been building prior to this incident and part of it was the kneeling.

The challenge is for BLM to push for changes without alienating the audience that absolutely has to be part of the solution to make them happen.  BLM has a stated goal of defunding the police nationally, which of course is completely unrealistic.  Reform to hold them accountable for abuse?  Absolutely.  Promote increased diversity in the police force and better screening/training of hires?  Sure.   The solutions have to be attainable.  Eliminating the police across the country is destined to fail.  As is equating the national anthem and flag as some symbol of racism and oppression on the level of a KKK hood or Nazi flag.