Bishop Sankey - It's Time

[OILERMAN]

 Of course now people are saying the Titans run D is terrible

 

Like who?

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2014&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

[NashvilleNinja]

For what it's worth:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/titansinsider/2014/12/15/whisenhunt-greene-hot-hand/20457163/

What worth?

[Mythos27]

I've been meaning to ask, what exactly is the debate? Are you suggesting they should have kept CJ? You already said you'd rather have Ivory. CJ is doing exactly what Powell did before him on a top rushing team so what exactly are you arguing for?

The debate isn't even that we should have kept CJ. I think even guys who like him would agree he wan't wort his contract anymore. The debate, is that people think they can get away with saying the guy just flat out sucks horribly as if there is no argument to be had. People want to use the statistics  to shit on him in one hand but when a good statistic is provided they find some way to not count it or dismiss it off hand. CJ's years of being an elite back are over but he's not the scrub that many butt-hurt Titans fans pretend he is.

[IsntLifeFunny]

The debate isn't even that we should have kept CJ. I think even guys who like him would agree he wan't wort his contract anymore. The debate, is that people think they can get away with saying the guy just flat out sucks horribly as if there is no argument to be had. People want to use the statistics  to shit on him in one hand but when a good statistic is provided they find some way to not count it or dismiss it off hand. CJ's years of being an elite back are over but he's not the scrub that many butt-hurt Titans fans pretend he is.

But he was a scrub for the Titans...the most overpaid scrub in NFL history for his position. Did a couple of his long runs win games? Sure, but that's only because in those games our offense was anemic, largely due to a terrible running game, so his long run mattered more than in the context of a game where either offense is putting up 24+. There are no amount of stats to say he's even a decent back at this point, and he sure as hell wasn't the last several years he was here, no matter how much of a scrub Sankey may be.

[big2033]

But he was a scrub for the Titans...the most overpaid scrub in NFL history for his position. Did a couple of his long runs win games? Sure, but that's only because in those games our offense was anemic, largely due to a terrible running game, so his long run mattered more than in the context of a game where either offense is putting up 24+. There are no amount of stats to say he's even a decent back at this point, and he sure as hell wasn't the last several years he was here, no matter how much of a scrub Sankey may be.

 

He wasn't a scrub for the Titans, he was a player who didn't live up to his contract. I honestly never expected him to. But he helped us win games. You said it yourself.

 

"A couple of long runs won us games ..." That's all you should really care about.

 

The argument was ... for years ... if we got a guy off the street or we gave someone else more chances we'd be better off. Well ... we're very obviously worse. Ringer didn't come close, Greene didn't come close, Sankey hasn't come close.

 

So maybe, just maybe, the CJ conversation is somewhere in the middle. Like Jamal, myself and others have maintained throughout. Because we haven't had pitchforks for CJ we've been dubbed as "CJ-lovers."

 

Why have pitchforks for someone who occasionally made plays, did what was asked on the field ... was liked by teammates ... never threw pads in the stands and his contract never got in the way of courting big free agents? Why does it matter so much?

 

For the "other side" it's been personal. The hatred from Zeppelin for a player is a borderline obsession ... and to now hear his excuses for our RBs now only proves the point.

 

And if there's one obvious knock on Oilerman, it's despite his desire to be an unapologetic and balanced analyst, once a Titans player gets in his bad-books his fanboyism kicks in and he can't shake his hatred until the guy is in a ditch. 

 

But it's great for a lot of fans on these boards because a lot of die-hard fans are like that. You coach loses, "FIRE EVERYONE!" your team has a convincing win "SUPERBOWL MAYBE?" He speaks to them ... the angry fan who are bothered by cocky players with big contracts that don't act or play they way they feel a big contract should dictate. This is what ESPN today is built on, so I understand it's lure. But I can never jump on that bandwagon.

 

My approach will always be measured.

 

Could we use 4.5 YPC and the occasional big run right now? Of course we could. Argument over.

Edited December 17, 2014 by big2033

[IsntLifeFunny]

That's been your argument. It's been Cenj and Jamal's. It's never been mine. I couldn't care less about the plug and play argument. What I do care about is any notion that CJ was a good and productive back since 2010. He wasn't. He was one of the worst starting backs in the league. "Argument over"

[big2033]

That's been your argument. It's been Cenj and Jamal's. It's never been mine. I couldn't care less about the plug and play argument. What I do care about is any notion that CJ was a good and productive back since 2010. He wasn't. He was one of the worst starting backs in the league. "Argument over"

 

Well again, that's a problem. Because it's not an absolute that he was terrible. It's angry fan talk.

 

"Terrible" is just an angry blanket statement that lacks real context.

 

And that's why this argument will forever go in circles.

Edited December 17, 2014 by big2033

[Face]

I've been meaning to ask, what exactly is the debate? Are you suggesting they should have kept CJ? You already said you'd rather have Ivory. CJ is doing exactly what Powell did before him on a top rushing team so what exactly are you arguing for?

2 things:

1)the criticism of CJ is over the top & inaccurate. Yes, he's a flawed back who doesn't have the best vision, goes down too easily when tackled, and is too hit & miss. But overall the production is there & always has been. His long runs are minimized way too much, they win games, just like the one on Sunday did. The Jets couldn't move the ball all day, CJ snaps off a 37 yarder...game.

2)I also just think it's sucks that a RB who ran for 8000 yards in his 6 years with a bad Titans team, never missed a single game, and had one of the most dominant years in NFL history, is so unceremoniously ripped by fans of the team. I don't know why so many people dislike the guy so much. Why, because he was selfish & wanted the ball? Because a was a bit too honest when asked questions? Welcome to the world of skill position players.

I also don't think he ever dogged it, I think that's bullshit. Look at the amount of injuries around the league, it's insane. Meanwhile our sub 200 LB back never missed a single game in 6 years.

We all have our viewpoints & that's fine. I happen to think he was a special RB who was very overused in '09 & never regained the burst he lost. I think if he was always used as a 15 carry a game runner he would've been & still would be awesome.

But even as is, at almost 30 years old, the guy is still producing. The fact is, and it's been posted a million times here, everyone said if CJ was replaced our running game would he greatly improved. It's been the complete opposite. Yes, there's other factors, but these factors are overstated. Like I said, exclude CJ's longest 3 carries, 47 yards & two 37's, and he's still averaging he same YPC as Sankey. Most posters here say if CJ was kept he wouldn't be doing any better than Sankey. I disagree.

[IsntLifeFunny]

Well again, that's a problem. Because it's not an absolute that he was terrible. It's angry fan talk.

 

"Terrible" is just an angry blanket statement that lacks real context.

 

And that's why this argument will forever go in circles.

lol if you don't think he was awful then you have no idea how to evaluate football. His success metrics have been absolute bottom of the barrel since 09.

[big2033]

lol if you don't think he was awful then you have no idea how to evaluate football. His success metrics have been absolute bottom of the barrel since 09.

 

Lol success metrics. And around we go.

[IsntLifeFunny]

Very simple stuff. You don't have to agree with the metrics, but people way more knowledge of the game believe it's one of the better ways to evaluate RBs. By that metric he's been awful, because he rarely produces first downs. His variance was acceptable when he was popping off more long runs, but those stopped happening and his variance became even worse. He's not a good RB.

[big2033]

Very simple stuff. You don't have to agree with the metrics, but people way more knowledge of the game believe it's one of the better ways to evaluate RBs. By that metric he's been awful, because he rarely produces first downs. His variance was acceptable when he was popping off more long runs, but those stopped happening and his variance became even worse. He's not a good RB.

 

Honestly. I've been through every argument ... 

 

There's a stat to prove anyone's point. And it's been used already. I just won't take an extreme side unless it's blatant ie on a practice squad. It's not.

 

The opposite of your "terrible" argument is "he was the greatest!" I'm not on that side either. I'm not that kind of fan.

Edited December 17, 2014 by big2033

[IsntLifeFunny]

Taking the middle road in situations where something is obvious is the opposite of logical.

The only argument won by those backing CJ is the plug and play argument. Seeing as I wasn't involved in that argument I don't have any concern with it. Other than that, there is very little argument to be made he was a productive RB over the past 4 years. YPC is about it, but those have been inflated and were still not great by any means, especially considering how few third and short or goal line carries he was given that deflates regular backs stats every year.

[Jd8]

The problem with Sankey is he is ok at everything and not good or great at anything.

He has ok speed.

He has ok strength..

He has ok agility and vision.

He is a well spoken likeable guy. He is a good teamate the kind of guy that coaches want to succeed.

Im just not convinced he has what it takes to be a starting runningback you have to better then ok.

Alot of backs lack in a certain area but make up for it in other areas Sankeys problem is he doesnt make up for it in any other areas.

We could have taken any RB in the draft and there is atleast 4 guys better then Sankey probably more.

I think we should have decided what kind of style we wanted to go with for our starting back a bruising powerback that wears down defenses by fighting for every yard or a speedback that makes those game changing plays and we draft the best possible guy at which ever style we wanted.

I really really hope Sankey has a great offseason works on his strength and conditioning adds some weight and muscle. While also working on his footwork nd blocking. Im not one who thinks he is just a lost cause and we need to move on. I also dont believe his lack ofproduction is solely on the. offensive line. I think Sankey has alot of work to do but its possible.

I would rather have a draft do over lol but since thats not possible all we can do is hope that fixing the offensive line and Sankey having a great offseason leads to dramatic improvement. I dont think we give up on Sankey yet but we have to draft a RB in the 4th or 5th rounds. I would even be ok with one in the 3rd if a really good guy we likes drops or maybe look at some in free agency.

As much as I want Sankey to improve and be the guy and its possible he improves and the line improves and he comes out next year and has a great year we cant depend on it.

[MIKE75]

It irritates me again that Webster could've drafted a better RB later and gotten someone else in the second round. Look below at some of the backs Webster could've grabbed later. Also K.C. actually gave up McCluster and got better returner and back with 4th rounder Thomas.

 

3rd Round-pick 94- Terrance West,Browns-------153 carries,579 yds, 3 TD

 

4th Round-pick 113- Andre Williams-Giants----------176 carries,568 yds, 6 TD

 

4th Round-pick 124- Deanthony Thomas,Chiefs------12 carries,101 yds, 1 TD,also good returner,they gave up McCluster and got him.

 

4th Round-pick 138-Lorenzo Taliaferro,Ravens------------68 carries,292 yds, 4 TD

 

6th Round-pick 181-Alfred Blue,Texans--------------------144 carries,483 yds, 1 TD

 

7th Round-pick 222-Storm Johnson,Jaguars----------------26 carries,83 yds, 2 TD