Argentina's Trump bound for Presidency?

[Justafan]

If you listen to the media, they have painted a picture of a guy who gets advice from dogs and is just batshit crazy.

 

If you listen to him, you hear a guy who is passionate about his country and wants to improve things.  

 

Maybe he's terrible, maybe he's a nut.  I don't know enough, but everyone here is super quick to grab onto the media narrative and immediately start throwing stones.

 

He wants to align with the US. He wants to adopt the dollar. He wants to move away from communist countries. Yes, he has some policy ideas that are 'radical,' but they are desperate, and they've been overburdened with government institutions that have robbed them of their prosperity. Maybe, just maybe, he's exactly what they need, or at the very least, not any worse than the alternative.  Either way, it says a lot about people on this forum that the ONLY narrative they immediately adopt is the negative one. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

3 minutes ago, Justafan said:

If you listen to the media, they have painted a picture of a guy who gets advice from dogs and is just batshit crazy.

 

If you listen to him, you hear a guy who is passionate about his country and wants to improve things.  

 

Maybe he's terrible, maybe he's a nut.  I don't know enough, but everyone here is super quick to grab onto the media narrative and immediately start throwing stones.

 

He wants to align with the US. He wants to adopt the dollar. He wants to move away from communist countries. Yes, he has some policy ideas that are 'radical,' but they are desperate, and they've been overburdened with government institutions that have robbed them of their prosperity. Maybe, just maybe, he's exactly what they need, or at the very least, not any worse than the alternative.  Either way, it says a lot about people on this forum that the ONLY narrative they immediately adopt is the negative one. 

I mean...the guy has 5 clones of a dog and is batshit crazy. I think it's going to be disastrous, but maybe not. I haven't seen anyone say anything other than it's going to be really interesting to watch. 

[WG53]

4 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I mean...the guy has 5 clones of a dog and is batshit crazy. I think it's going to be disastrous, but maybe not. I haven't seen anyone say anything other than it's going to be really interesting to watch. 

He literally just laid out the excuse of why people voted for trump  and thinks it is a sane choice.

[Justafan]

2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I mean...the guy has 5 clones of a dog and is batshit crazy. I think it's going to be disastrous, but maybe not. I haven't seen anyone say anything other than it's going to be really interesting to watch. 

You just immediately said he's batshit crazy. He might be.  You don't know that. That's the narrative, but how much truth is there to it? 

 

They asked him about the dog thing, and he waved it off as a joke, which then, of course, his opponents turned into a non-admission admission.  If you listen to him talk - he does seem eccentric, but he doesn't sound like a nut who talks to dogs. That sounds like narrative rubbish, but if you want to buy it just because someone said it, go ahead.  Like I said, I think that says a lot. 

[Justafan]

6 minutes ago, WG53 said:

He literally just laid out the excuse of why people voted for trump  and thinks it is a sane choice.

No, Trump said objectionable things like "grab em' by the pussy", made racial comments, insulted gold star families, bragged about committing crimes, flirted with our enemies, weaponized political rhetoric with lock her up chants, etc.  That's not close to the same situation as this.  If you listened to Trump, he sounded like a crude, ignorant POS unfit to lead.  This guy spouts off about leftists, but given the socialist history of the country and the direction he's trying to take it, I think that's fair game and just politics. 

 

I condemned Trump right from the start.  Honestly, I thought it was a joke and there was no way people would be dumb enough to buy his BS.  I guess I overestimated people. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

14 minutes ago, Justafan said:

You just immediately said he's batshit crazy. He might be.  You don't know that. That's the narrative, but how much truth is there to it? 

 

They asked him about the dog thing, and he waved it off as a joke, which then, of course, his opponents turned into a non-admission admission.  If you listen to him talk - he does seem eccentric, but he doesn't sound like a nut who talks to dogs. That sounds like narrative rubbish, but if you want to buy it just because someone said it, go ahead.  Like I said, I think that says a lot. 

I've watched him speak and I've also seen his absolute infatuation with the dogs, which are in fact cloned dogs. Yeah, I think that's crazy as shit. 

 

I also know his economic solutions and believe in practice they will likely be catastrophic to that country because he's going to gut the entire government. 

 

I know his views on zero abortion and his appeal to nationalism...once again things I don't enjoy in any politician. 

 

So yeah, I have an opinion about him. 

 

As far as them electing him. I mean hey I can sympathize with the fact their country has been completely fucked by the status quo so they've decided to pull a full 180. I'll be watching from the sidelines not judging by any moral standard but with genuine interest to see Libertarianism (I voted for Ron Paul over Obama) be given a chance. I think it won't work as an economic or government but that's an opinion and I'm very interested to see how it plays out. 

 

If anyone is attacking here it seems to be you tbh. That says a lot about you. Like oh okay well not sure what to tell you about me having an opinion. 

[Justafan]

2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I've watched him speak and I've also seen his absolute infatuation with the dogs, which are in fact cloned dogs. Yeah, I think that's crazy as shit. 

 

I also know his economic solutions and believe in practice they will likely be catastrophic to that country because he's going to gut the entire government. 

 

I know his views on zero abortion and his appeal to nationalism...once again things I don't enjoy in any politician. 

 

So yeah, I have an opinion about him. 

 

As far as them electing him. I mean hey I can sympathize with the fact their country has been completely fucked by the status quo so they've decided to pull a full 180. I'll be watching from the sidelines not judging by any moral standard but with genuine interest to see Libertarianism (I voted for Ron Paul over Obama) be given a chance. I think it won't work as an economic or government but that's an opinion and I'm very interested to see how it plays out. 

 

If anyone is attacking here it seems to be you tbh. That says a lot about you. Like oh okay well not sure what to tell you about me having an opinion. 

He's not really a libertarian imo.  I agree that the dog thing is a little weird, but I also think it's been overstated in an attempt to damage him.

 

It's completely fair to take issue with his policies. It's the rhetoric and the other stuff that bothers me.  That's the conversation we should be having. 

 

I agree that some of his rhetoric is troublesome just in terms of how ugly some of it is towards his opponents, but unfortunately, that's not really uncommon in modern politics. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

2 minutes ago, Justafan said:

He's not really a libertarian imo.  I agree that the dog thing is a little weird, but I also think it's been overstated in an attempt to damage him.

 

It's completely fair to take issue with his policies. It's the rhetoric and the other stuff that bothers me.  That's the conversation we should be having. 

 

I agree that some of his rhetoric is troublesome just in terms of how ugly some of it is towards his opponents, but unfortunately, that's not really uncommon in modern politics. 

The dog thing is really fuckin weird lol. I don't consider anyone who would have 5 cloned dogs to be a stable individual. Take that along with his rhetoric and yeah I think he's batshit crazy. 

 

That doesn't mean he can't be an effective leader. An article I read today talked about how there's going to be a backstop because of the parliament, so maybe his ideals can be placed somewhat in a box and implemented slowly and it ends up being the right mix.

 

I think that could actually work to a degree, but as a conservative at heart I don't hear any of that coming from him. He wants to take an axe (the motherfucker walked around with live chainsaw until just a couple weeks ago!) to the system Fight Club style. If he gets his way it's going to be ugly. If the change is implemented slowly then it could possibly work but I still doubt it as you will have completely privatized the mechanism of government. 

[Jamalisms]

Apart from anything else, I'm gonna go ahead and say that anyone advocating for letting people sell their organs is "batshit crazy."

[IrishTitansFan]

11 hours ago, Justafan said:

 but given the socialist history of the country and the direction he's trying to take it, I think that's fair game and just politics. 

 

 

Eh, IMO it's a stretch to say Argentina has been socialist. Peronism has dominated and can differ wildly depending on the leader, it's pure populism and Nationalism for the most part. Some have had socialist tendencies, others have been capitalist. Either way, Argentina seems like a place that defies logic and trends when it comes to the economy

 

I'm not sure what bringing another populist in will do for it, but I wish the people all the best

[Justafan]

3 hours ago, IrishTitansFan said:

Eh, IMO it's a stretch to say Argentina has been socialist. Peronism has dominated and can differ wildly depending on the leader, it's pure populism and Nationalism for the most part. Some have had socialist tendencies, others have been capitalist. Either way, Argentina seems like a place that defies logic and trends when it comes to the economy

 

I'm not sure what bringing another populist in will do for it, but I wish the people all the best

Do you agree that he's trying to take the country in a radically new direction or do you contend he's "just another populist"?

[IrishTitansFan]

32 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Do you agree that he's trying to take the country in a radically new direction or do you contend he's "just another populist"?

Certainly seems like populism, as you've noted on reddit they're just looking for anything different, smart of him to pick up on that

 

Results TBD, I wish them well of course

[IsntLifeFunny]

7 hours ago, Jamalisms said:

Apart from anything else, I'm gonna go ahead and say that anyone advocating for letting people sell their organs is "batshit crazy."

I forgot to add that to the list. Yeah, that's crazy as all hell. 

[Jamalisms]

One of the things my friends in Argentina and I discussed is that it can be a challenge assessing things from the outside because the challenges they face right now are so dissimilar from the logical/ ordered / relatively balanced lens I tend to interpret things through. The solutions to the problems they face aren't going to be the same as the solutions to any of the problems we face, really. Abolishing a central bank and getting rid of social services seem like moving backwards to me but maybe they can't do those things yet until there's more stability overall.

 

In some ways, this guy represents a "fuck it, let's do anything else" option and I think that's reckless and borderline crazy. At the same time, it's possible that it takes a bombastic, oddly flamboyant outsider personality (see: easy comparisons to Trump) to break through partisan strangleholds and force change. They acknowledge almost all of the negatives that are obvious about this guy on the surface but they hope that those are overall not as important as his willingness to do the shock change and mix things up (again, see: easy comparisons to Trump).

 

There's no guarantee the change they get is positive (the direction Trump took the Republican party has not been a positive and his obvious surface negatives came to define him more and more with time) but it's possible. Either way, the hope is that derailing the powers-that-be train is enough for new solutions to be more easily identified moving forward.

[IsntLifeFunny]

3 hours ago, Jamalisms said:

One of the things my friends in Argentina and I discussed is that it can be a challenge assessing things from the outside because the challenges they face right now are so dissimilar from the logical/ ordered / relatively balanced lens I tend to interpret things through. The solutions to the problems they face aren't going to be the same as the solutions to any of the problems we face, really. Abolishing a central bank and getting rid of social services seem like moving backwards to me but maybe they can't do those things yet until there's more stability overall.

 

In some ways, this guy represents a "fuck it, let's do anything else" option and I think that's reckless and borderline crazy. At the same time, it's possible that it takes a bombastic, oddly flamboyant outsider personality (see: easy comparisons to Trump) to break through partisan strangleholds and force change. They acknowledge almost all of the negatives that are obvious about this guy on the surface but they hope that those are overall not as important as his willingness to do the shock change and mix things up (again, see: easy comparisons to Trump).

 

There's no guarantee the change they get is positive (the direction Trump took the Republican party has not been a positive and his obvious surface negatives came to define him more and more with time) but it's possible. Either way, the hope is that derailing the powers-that-be train is enough for new solutions to be more easily identified moving forward.

You said this better than I did upthread but yeah that is the hope. I think him having a parliament that can at least slow the transition means it could be feasible to work. The extreme things he wants plainly stated would be a disaster. However, some of the changes such as moving to the dollar while strengthening ties  and putting a halt to an obviously bloated bureaucracy could be a tremendous change for their country. 

 

Ecuador changed to the dollar about 20 years ago and had a similar transition to closer ties to the US. It's done wonders for their country even though the transition wasn't easy at first.