Invasion of Ukraine: Drone Incursion Into Poland

[wiscotitansfan]

44 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Iran can easily send someone to America or Europe to buy the components they need and simply ship them via UPS or some random shipping container. 

My family was getting interviewed by the Feds back in the early 2000s because some Muslim from the middle-east in the commercial and I believe military aviation equipment industry cozying up with a Jew in NYC drew some red flags lol

[Starkiller]

1 minute ago, wiscotitansfan said:

My family was getting interviewed by the Feds back in the early 2000s because some Muslim from the middle-east in the commercial and I believe military aviation equipment industry cozying up with a Jew in NYC drew some red flags lol

Back then these were very specialized components. Now you can get them on Amazon or eBay. 

[begooode]

1 hour ago, Starkiller said:

Remember, components for these drones include some pretty standard PC/electronics parts. A big order could just look like someone is building PCs or some other computer-based device (which is just about everything nowadays). Also orders would be distributed so it’s not possible to tell what they are making.

 

Iran is capable of making their own explosives and drone airframes. It’s the brains and communications components of the drone they would need to outsource. That type of electronics doesn’t inherently scream “weapons supplies”.

 

 

I'll concede the argument on commodity type materials, but for sure there needs to be very high penalties for the intermediaries that are involved in converting these materials to Iranian/Russian, etc ownership or selling to these ownership groups. Honestly, this touches on a larger issue of how Western governments have encouraged global shell companies of dubious ownership to circumvent practical regulations across all of international trade and finance.

[tgo]

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by tgo

[Starkiller]

53 minutes ago, begooode said:

 

I'll concede the argument on commodity type materials, but for sure there needs to be very high penalties for the intermediaries that are involved in converting these materials to Iranian/Russian, etc ownership or selling to these ownership groups. Honestly, this touches on a larger issue of how Western governments have encouraged global shell companies of dubious ownership to circumvent practical regulations across all of international trade and finance.

The trick is catching them…

 

But I’m all for cracking down on shell corporations in general. They simply shouldn’t exist, certainly not in the way they are abused today. 

[tgo]

 

[Starkiller]

One other thing about drones in this conflict is that it has totally changed the face of warfare. Things might be different if the US was involved because of our airpower, but the doctrine of “air superiority” has totally changed with the introduction of drones. They are being used for surveillance, dropping grenades on infantry, distracting anti-air defenses, and simply as flying bombs themselves. Also there are naval drones, which are an effective weapon against ships.

 

If we were to get into a conflict with China over Taiwan, I would fully expect China to launch literally thousands of drones to attack our aircraft carriers. They would be able to simply overwhelm any naval force.

 

Also, I’m concerned that this will be an easy weapon for terrorists. Instead of 19 Saudis hijacking planes you could simply have 19 Saudis (or “patriots”) commanding a vast array of kamikaze drones. They could attack airports, power plants, government buildings, Walmarts, or pretty much whatever unhardened target they like. A drone wouldn’t have near the destructive capacity of a single hijacked airliner but the distributed damage of hundreds of drones in a coordinated attack is pretty devastating.

[tgo]

29 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

One other thing about drones in this conflict is that it has totally changed the face of warfare. Things might be different if the US was involved because of our airpower, but the doctrine of “air superiority” has totally changed with the introduction of drones. They are being used for surveillance, dropping grenades on infantry, distracting anti-air defenses, and simply as flying bombs themselves. Also there are naval drones, which are an effective weapon against ships.

 

If we were to get into a conflict with China over Taiwan, I would fully expect China to launch literally thousands of drones to attack our aircraft carriers. They would be able to simply overwhelm any naval force.

 

Also, I’m concerned that this will be an easy weapon for terrorists. Instead of 19 Saudis hijacking planes you could simply have 19 Saudis (or “patriots”) commanding a vast array of kamikaze drones. They could attack airports, power plants, government buildings, Walmarts, or pretty much whatever unhardened target they like. A drone wouldn’t have near the destructive capacity of a single hijacked airliner but the distributed damage of hundreds of drones in a coordinated attack is pretty devastating.

 

Need to develop anti drone swarms of smaller drones to counter!

[begooode]

30 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

One other thing about drones in this conflict is that it has totally changed the face of warfare. Things might be different if the US was involved because of our airpower, but the doctrine of “air superiority” has totally changed with the introduction of drones. They are being used for surveillance, dropping grenades on infantry, distracting anti-air defenses, and simply as flying bombs themselves. Also there are naval drones, which are an effective weapon against ships.

 

If we were to get into a conflict with China over Taiwan, I would fully expect China to launch literally thousands of drones to attack our aircraft carriers. They would be able to simply overwhelm any naval force.

 

Also, I’m concerned that this will be an easy weapon for terrorists. Instead of 19 Saudis hijacking planes you could simply have 19 Saudis (or “patriots”) commanding a vast array of kamikaze drones. They could attack airports, power plants, government buildings, Walmarts, or pretty much whatever unhardened target they like. A drone wouldn’t have near the destructive capacity of a single hijacked airliner but the distributed damage of hundreds of drones in a coordinated attack is pretty devastating.

 

Agreed that aircraft carriers have vulnerability, but as apex platforms for projecting power, they always have and their preservation is core to the mission of the US Navy.  They travel in groups protected and supplied by 12-15 ships and at least 2 attack subs. The first round of defense is to not allow 1,000s of drones to be launched in the first place.  The activity would be detected and missiles from offshore subs and cruisers would destroy the site of origin within minutes.

 

Next, the always on station E2 Hawkeye radar surveillance tracks all bogies and coordinates offense and defensive air traffic, including the numerous drones already in the sky monitoring China along with satellite feeds.  The extensive electronics jamming of the drones would begin here too. https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/air/e-2d-advanced-hawkeye

 

The on station jets would account for the next wave of defenses, well trained pilots to eliminate drone attacks and flood the zone with chaff and other countermeasures. Whatever number of drones that would get through to encounter the frontline ships of the carrier group are equipped with Vulcan-style gun that are very effective at eliminating drones. Additionally all of these ships would be sacrificed with outsized radar signatures to protect the aircraft carrier.

 

https://science.howstuffworks.com/carrier-group.htm

[begooode]

12 minutes ago, tgo said:

Need to develop anti drone swarms of smaller drones to counter!

 

And always, ALWAYS, invest heavily in the the intel community - people and satellites.  I have a feeling China's recent big spending in military will show similar corruption as has been exposed from the Russians.  Not sure Xi wants to find out while attacking his biggest global trade partner and single greatest contributor to their economy.

[IsntLifeFunny]

9 hours ago, Starkiller said:

One other thing about drones in this conflict is that it has totally changed the face of warfare. Things might be different if the US was involved because of our airpower, but the doctrine of “air superiority” has totally changed with the introduction of drones. They are being used for surveillance, dropping grenades on infantry, distracting anti-air defenses, and simply as flying bombs themselves. Also there are naval drones, which are an effective weapon against ships.

 

If we were to get into a conflict with China over Taiwan, I would fully expect China to launch literally thousands of drones to attack our aircraft carriers. They would be able to simply overwhelm any naval force.

 

Also, I’m concerned that this will be an easy weapon for terrorists. Instead of 19 Saudis hijacking planes you could simply have 19 Saudis (or “patriots”) commanding a vast array of kamikaze drones. They could attack airports, power plants, government buildings, Walmarts, or pretty much whatever unhardened target they like. A drone wouldn’t have near the destructive capacity of a single hijacked airliner but the distributed damage of hundreds of drones in a coordinated attack is pretty devastating.

After watching the obliteration of a lot of countries over the past 23 years I don't think we'll be seeing any government sanctioned attacks on American soil.

 

I agree with you though, and it's going to be a really interesting development to watch how it translates for the US being able to project power. I would imagine US defense contractors have this as one of their top priorities. 

[tgo]

 

[begooode]

24 minutes ago, tgo said:

 

Now that's third reich talk.  What's particularly out of place is that typical Russians were doing okay prior to Putin's actions to reconstitute the USSR empire.  This is not about real discontentment within the populace, from poor economy or other factors impacting their daily lives. It seems purely propaganda driven.

[Starkiller]

 

[begooode]

SkyNet self-aware countdown...

 

As the Defense Department is pushing aggressively to modernize its forces using fully autonomous drones and weapons systems, critics fear the start of a new arms race that could dramatically raise the risk of mass destruction, nuclear war and civilian casualties.

 

The Pentagon and military tech industry are going into overdrive in a massive effort to scale out existing technology in what has been the Replicator initiative. It envisions a future force in which fully autonomous systems are deployed in flying drones, aircraft, water vessels and defense systems — connected through a computerized mainframe to synchronize and command units.

 

Arms control advocates fear the worst and worry existing guardrails offer insufficient checks, given the existential risks. Critics call self-operating weapons “killer robots” or “slaughterbots” because they are powered by artificial intelligence (AI) and can technically operate independently to take out targets without human help. 

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4225909-why-the-pentagons-killer-robots-are-spurring-major-concerns/