OILERMAN Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 10 hours ago, luvyablue256 said: What else were they supposed to do, NOT go and work at UPS their whole lives? They'd be better off. UPS top pay is close to 40 an hour with awesome benefits! luvyablue256 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, Rogue said: So, are you saying that the money made available to help people stay employed during a pandemic not of their choice or making, is not as wise as forgiving student loan debt totally of their choice and making? ... no. I'm saying that keeping people employed during the pandemic had (I think) pretty similar societal impact as addressing student loans and your seeming acceptance of the former and rejection of the latter is probably inconsistent and that analyzing it through the lens of societal impact would probably help you recognize that and reassess. Or not. Hard to tell on the internet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 12 hours ago, oldschool said: It's funny how some of you shit all over people who live above their means and rack up credit but turn a blind eye when it's student debt. It's the same thing. Most people are dummies Relieving student debt helps the entire consumption based economy. luvyablue256, and IsntLifeFunny 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvyablue256 Posted December 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 23 minutes ago, OILERMAN said: Most people are dummies Relieving student debt helps the entire consumption based economy. The entire economy! WSJ report today showed flat sales in November compared to October which explains the difference people feel about the economy and inflation vs. how the issue is presented. Eliminating student debt on working class folks immediately adds insane consumer confidence to the market. Jerry Blair, and OILERMAN 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 25 minutes ago, OILERMAN said: Most people are dummies Relieving student debt helps the entire consumption based economy. Another good point. All those idiots would just rack up more debt! Jerry Blair, and OILERMAN 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, Jamalisms said: ... no. I'm saying that keeping people employed during the pandemic had (I think) pretty similar societal impact as addressing student loans and your seeming acceptance of the former and rejection of the latter is probably inconsistent and that analyzing it through the lens of societal impact would probably help you recognize that and reassess. Or not. Hard to tell on the internet. Or, your analysis isn't correct. 1) PPP likely helped many with student loan debt keep the jobs they had. 2) People with student loan debt CAN work. 3) There is a big difference in being unemployed and having debt. A lot of people have debt. People potentially losing everything they own is much different than someone that can't contribute to the economy as others believe they should. People that lose everything they own isn't going to contribute much if at all to the economy. Big difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, oldschool said: Another good point. All those idiots would just rack up more debt! Exactly, but in the form of Housing, New cars, IPhones etc...... Jerry Blair, and luvyablue256 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, luvyablue256 said: The entire economy! WSJ report today showed flat sales in November compared to October which explains the difference people feel about the economy and inflation vs. how the issue is presented. Eliminating student debt on working class folks immediately adds insane consumer confidence to the market. It's true that eliminating debt would help consumer spending. But that goes for ANY debt. Why is the focus just on student loans? Why not automobile loans? Or credit cards? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Rogue said: It's true that eliminating debt would help consumer spending. But that goes for ANY debt. Why is the focus just on student loans? Why not automobile loans? Or credit cards? I was kinda ignorant for how big this problem is. The problem is student loan debt can't be taken off with bankruptcy and they can garnish pretty much anything. I saw where grandparents get their SS garnished who co-signed for student loans. This isn't true for the other debts you mention. Your car gets repoed and you get a shitty credit score but you're free from the debt. There is no escape from the student loan debt and the compounding of the debt often sky rockets amazingly big IsntLifeFunny, oldschool, Jerry Blair, and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, oldschool said: Another good point. All those idiots would just rack up more debt! Well, a lot of people have a lot of debt, not just idiots. There's not much difference in a home mortgage and student loans regarding the economy. It's just what sector of the economy it goes to. Real Estate vs the education system. Books don't print themselves and houses don't construct themselves. There's just a weird thing going on that only one cross section of people "deserve" debt relief. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 12/13/2021 at 4:12 PM, oldschool said: never said that. read my original response. forgiving debt for everyone that currently has student loans doesn't address the root of the issue which is the cost of college. All it does it reset the clock. Its also a massive precedent to set which allows people to shirk their responsibilities when it comes to credit and debt in general. Removing the restrictions on student loan inclusion in the bankruptcy process is the first place to start. No offense but I don't feel sorry for anyone who has massive debt and lives above their means. I've been debt free for a very long time and did so through hard work. Pretending this is about people who "live above their means" is a pretty laughable notion of the way that debt and cost of living has skyrocketed without recourse. This is a generational crisis, and not because of some widespread behavioral deficit. My main take on this is that we have no qualms covering up for the "mistakes" of corporations and the wealthy--we hand these folks free money all the time. But to do something to help your child's teacher or your family practitioner or the social worker earning sub 50k paying DC rent? Fuck those people, they're living above their means right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, OILERMAN said: I was kinda ignorant for how big this problem is. The problem is student loan debt can't be taken off with bankruptcy and they can garnish pretty much anything. I saw where grandparents get their SS garnished who co-signed for student loans. This isn't true for the other debts you mention. Your car gets repoed and you get a shitty credit score but you're free from the debt. There is no escape from the student loan debt and the compounding of the debt often sky rockets amazingly big That's true, and I would completely be in favor of allowing student loan debt to be included in bankruptcy proceedings. That's not an undoable thing. Why isn't that being discussed to any degree? Why is it just, hey, let's forgive the debt. Forgiving the debt doesn't fix that problem at all. oldschool 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, OILERMAN said: I was kinda ignorant for how big this problem is. The problem is student loan debt can't be taken off with bankruptcy and they can garnish pretty much anything. I saw where grandparents get their SS garnished who co-signed for student loans. This isn't true for the other debts you mention. Your car gets repoed and you get a shitty credit score but you're free from the debt. There is no escape from the student loan debt and the compounding of the debt often sky rockets amazingly big Yes it's a racket. I said yesterday one of the first reform items should be allowing student debt to be included in bankruptcy if the criteria is met. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Bink said: Pretending this is about people who "live above their means" is a pretty laughable notion of the way that debt and cost of living has skyrocketed without recourse. This is a generational crisis, and not because of some widespread behavioral deficit. My main take on this is that we have no qualms covering up for the "mistakes" of corporations and the wealthy--we hand these folks free money all the time. But to do something to help your child's teacher or your family practitioner or the social worker earning sub 50k paying DC rent? Fuck those people, they're living above their means right? Totally what I said! Not really though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 36 minutes ago, Rogue said: Or, your analysis isn't correct. 1) PPP likely helped many with student loan debt keep the jobs they had. 2) People with student loan debt CAN work. 3) There is a big difference in being unemployed and having debt. A lot of people have debt. People potentially losing everything they own is much different than someone that can't contribute to the economy as others believe they should. People that lose everything they own isn't going to contribute much if at all to the economy. Big difference. None of that is the societal benefit as I was referring to. It's just the differences. Both have a positive effect on the economy, both help keep people financially stable, both address inequity ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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