Brexit and Russia looks alot like Trump and Russia

[pat]

There's no way the States of Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Georgia, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, South Carolina, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Virginia, New York, and Rhode Island would ever form a more perfect Union!  That would be a terrible idea!

Edited June 27, 2018 by patsplat

[THE_TITAN]

On 6/25/2018 at 7:46 PM, Legaltitan said:

Well of course America would never go in for something like the EU to begin with. The whole point of the EU was to find an economic counterbalance to US hegemony, right?

 

The initial numbers in from Brexit show it to be far from perfect. UK looks like it is going to get soaked in the final analysis.

The final analysis is based on variable inputs - its not worth the paper it's written on so to speak. We shall see. Ultimately all European negotiations are a nightmare because of the overly bureaucratic system they have in Brussels.

 

The European project was fine until it became a political project to create a federal Europe. Nation states are important and the EU either ignored or forgot this point. The Euro is another example of a failed experiment, Germany's attempt to mesh its own monetary system with states like Greece and Italy and then try to form a sensible monetary policy was never going to work. It went the expected way - Germany chose the monetary policy path of the Euro and it ended up shafting the Mediterranean nations.

 

Also do not forget this important point regarding Brexit, the UK invests more into the EU than vice versa. Many EU countries will be losing out on potential investment in the future if they try to impose a punishment through negotiations.

 

I voted Remain because the UK was in a pretty darn good economic and political position with Cameron at the helm - I felt no need to alter the status quo. But have always had misgivings about the EU and so I was not overly disappointed that we voted to Leave.

[reo]

https://politicalwire.com/2018/06/28/trump-is-trying-to-break-the-european-union/

 

Pushing for more of what Russia wants. They made a pretty good buy.

[OzTitan]

It's not too surprising the US and Russia may end up having shared interests, when it comes to seeing the disruption of a union neither are members of. 

[Legaltitan]

14 hours ago, OzTitan said:

It's not too surprising the US and Russia may end up having shared interests, when it comes to seeing the disruption of a union neither are members of. 

Gaslighting Europe and our NATO allies along with Russia - what could possibly go wrong?

[OILERMAN]

 

 

 

[THE_TITAN]

4 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

 

 

 

 

LOL this gives too much credit to Banks and Farage, I don't think either of those are capable of organising a piss up at a brewery. Heck their campaign on the 'Leave' side was a mere sideshow - the official Leave campaign was far more effective and the reason that side won. Farage is not a major political figure outside Trump circles (also a bit harsh to call him far-right). Banks is largely considered to be a joke and bankrolls nationalist parties over here.

[reo]

16 minutes ago, THE_TITAN said:

 

LOL this gives too much credit to Banks and Farage, I don't think either of those are capable of organising a piss up at a brewery. Heck their campaign on the 'Leave' side was a mere sideshow - the official Leave campaign was far more effective and the reason that side won. Farage is not a major political figure outside Trump circles (also a bit harsh to call him far-right). Banks is largely considered to be a joke and bankrolls nationalist parties over here.

So was Trump and his campaign. People keep under estimating the Russian propaganda effort.

[IsntLifeFunny]

1 hour ago, THE_TITAN said:

 

LOL this gives too much credit to Banks and Farage, I don't think either of those are capable of organising a piss up at a brewery. Heck their campaign on the 'Leave' side was a mere sideshow - the official Leave campaign was far more effective and the reason that side won. Farage is not a major political figure outside Trump circles (also a bit harsh to call him far-right). Banks is largely considered to be a joke and bankrolls nationalist parties over here.

This is where I run into problems with the line of thinking, and I don’t mean this to disparage you. When you’re looking at such a narrow vote then acting like because they’re second rate players that they didn’t make a difference doesn’t make much sense. It doesn’t mean they were the reason for the outcome, but acting like they didn’t affect it doesn’t make much sense in either of our situations. 

[THE_TITAN]

2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

This is where I run into problems with the line of thinking, and I don’t mean this to disparage you. When you’re looking at such a narrow vote then acting like because they’re second rate players that they didn’t make a difference doesn’t make much sense. It doesn’t mean they were the reason for the outcome, but acting like they didn’t affect it doesn’t make much sense in either of our situations. 

OK let me put it this way then, they had a negligible impact on the vote outcome. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by THE_TITAN

[IsntLifeFunny]

Just now, THE_TITAN said:

OK let me put it this way then, they had a negligible impact on the vote outcome. 

I’ll take your word on that one. Does that mean it didn’t happen though? It is becoming a trend with Russia. 

 

What was the major movement to leave? If you say it’s just about policy I likely won’t believe you. What forced the vote? I can read articles all day, but those are now forever slanted. What’s your opinion on not only why it happened, but why the people backed it. I would love to know if Facebook was flooded with propaganda, even if just for my own understanding of what really happened over there. 

[Starkiller]

Putin continues to try to break up the EU

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/macron-on-trump-suggestion-to-leave-eu-you-can-imagine-my-response/

 

French President Emmanuel Macron said Friday he would not comment directly on a report that Donald Trump suggested France leave the EU — but his commitment to Europe made clear what his response would have been.

 

Back in April, Trump proposed to Macron that France leave the EU, the Washington Post reported, citing two European officials, and said that if Paris left the bloc, it would win a bilateral trade deal superior to what the EU gets as a whole.

 

The White House did not dispute the officials’ account, but declined to comment, the Post reported.

[THE_TITAN]

1 hour ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I’ll take your word on that one. Does that mean it didn’t happen though? It is becoming a trend with Russia. 

 

What was the major movement to leave? If you say it’s just about policy I likely won’t believe you. What forced the vote? I can read articles all day, but those are now forever slanted. What’s your opinion on not only why it happened, but why the people backed it. I would love to know if Facebook was flooded with propaganda, even if just for my own understanding of what really happened over there. 

They didn't run the official vote leave campaign - the official campaign was run by Dominic Cummings (a campaigns genius) with the backing of major political figures like Boris Johnson. 

 

Farage and Banks were involved with a parallel and far less successful (to put it mildly) campaign Leave.EU.

 

Look, people voted leave because of immigration, economic discontent and anti-establishment feeling. That would've occurred irrespective of if Farage or Banks were involved in the conversation. So the idea that they have some major role in a Russian conspiracy is laughable to me.

Edited June 29, 2018 by THE_TITAN

[Bruce87]

On 6/25/2018 at 7:46 PM, Legaltitan said:

Well of course America would never go in for something like the EU to begin with. The whole point of the EU was to find an economic counterbalance to US hegemony, right?

 

The initial numbers in from Brexit show it to be far from perfect. UK looks like it is going to get soaked in the final analysis.

The idea of EU was sound.  But now with the introduction of the euro back in the 90s  countries have been financially ruined ie greece/italy/Spain, more and more EU laws/regulations that every member must abide by, the pot that every member must provide to even if the member is in dire straits,  open borders that must allow every European into what ever country they desire and use their social benefit system, healthcare and justice system of the country their moving to. 

 

Now the EU wants to build their own army for what ever reason funded by member states.  The European parliament is a bunch of overpaid politician trying to get all their fingers in the pies.  It has nothing to do with the protection of it's members.  

[Starkiller]

The EU is an attempt to unify the European countries into something akin to the United States. Shared economy, shared laws, shared oversight, shared military (eventually), etc...

 

Unless you think the United States was a terrible idea and is a massive failure as a country then I’m not really sure what the argument against the EU is...