Greg Cosell on Williams

[Guest]

In any case, at what point do people start admitting he;s no better a prospect than the DT's we see at the top of the draft every year?

 

Not Watt. Not Suh. Not Haynesworth.

 

The measurables just aren't there. 

[cenj]

It's fair to not be sure about Williams. It's easier to project interior DTs who are explosive 1-gap perpetrators, or speedy DEs, or space-eating middle-road DL. Williams has a versatile skill-set and there aren't a lot of players with his combination of size, strength, and athleticism.

 

I'm completely sold though. 

[oldschool]

I think he is and will be more like Darnell Dockett (size, type, system). A very good player but not necessarily some comic strip character people are making him out to be.

 

Fair point. To be honest most fans have no clue how to watch DL play so unless Williams gets 10 sacks a year we'll have to listen to uninformed posters bitch about how he was over drafted.

[Guest]

I found a great write up form a guy who is actually very positive about Williams' future and predicts he will be an impact player. He addresses the explosiveness concern and says while there is validity to the claims other times he has shown good explosiveness and he thinks it relates to technique/age/USC design.

 

Complete breakdown here:

 

http://www.conquestchronicles.com/2015/2/27/8089237/nfl-draft-report-film-breakdown-leonard-williams-usc-trojans/

 

Tidbit re ability to get off ball:

 

Issues getting off the ball?

 

The one major knock I've seen regarding Williams' play is his lack of explosiveness off the line of scrimmage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That first-step explosiveness is a valuable tool to have as a pass rusher simply because it adds another dimension to a player's game. In the NFL, any weakness in a player's game will be exploited. Leonard Williams won't be able to simply manhandle guys all the time like he did at USC.

 

If NFL offensive linemen know that he can't get off the ball quickly, they'll do things like "jump-set" Williams and attack him at the snap (instead of waiting for Williams to attack them) to take away his ability to bull-rush, since they know Williams won't be able to get around them with explosion.

 

Watching Williams in person and on tape, I can definitely see some merit to these comments. He doesn't always get upfield that quickly, and isn't as decisive as you'd like an elite defensive lineman to be.

Here he is, the last lineman off the line of scrimmage:

 

 

And check out this example:

 

 

This is a little more subtle, but he comes off the ball high and it takes a few steps for him to get up to full speed.

And this is not good:

 

 

Again, Leonard Williams doesn't explode off the line at the snap. He looks indecisive, and even though it looked like he could have beaten the lineman with a powerful inside move here, he lacks the aggression and commitment to any one move.

Same with this play:

 

 

Almost no upfield movement at the snap. That kind of football isn't fun to watch. These are the kind of plays the above (respected) analysts are talking about when they criticize Williams.

 

However, when people criticize Leonard Williams for not being consistently explosive off the snap, it is important to remember a few things:

 

1) He was asked to play the run and "two-gap" quite often (we'll get to those examples in the next section), as opposed to rushing upfield after the quarterback. This means he was supposed to attack the blocker instead of a specific gap, with the intent of controlling the two gaps on either side of the lineman. This entails more controlled play and power moves as opposed to explosive, lateral moves, since the goal isn't to get around the lineman into the backfield.

 

2) With USC's lack of depth across the board, their starters had to play an insane amount of snaps. I couldn't locate any site that keeps snap counts for NCAA football, but Williams probably played around 90% of USC's defensive snaps last season. This is an obscenely large amount, and it would therefore be understandable if Williams wasn't rocketing off the line of scrimmage at every snap.

 

In the NFL, usually defensive linemen will play somewhere in the 60%-70% range (with a few exceptions), meaning that Leonard Williams should be fresher next year than he was at any point in his last two seasons at USC. More energy for Williams should translate to better explosiveness in his play.

[ChesterCopperpot1]

Here's why I don't want LW at 2. I think he's a really good prospect, but I don't think he's a world beater. What he does, you can find someone in the 2nd or 3rd round to do what he does, and the dropoff would not be all that significant. If we go D at 2, I want one of the OLB pass rushers.

In a Dick LeBeau 3-4 defense, it's all about the LBers.

[Tim]

Suh played two gap at Nebraska almost exclusively and still put up insane numbers. The point about how many plays Williams had to play at USC is a great one. He was overused they had no choice.

[TitansGuru]

I think he is and will be more like Darnell Dockett (size, type, system). A very good player but not necessarily some comic strip character people are making him out to be.

 

Pretty much where I am after watching him more. Still a very good player. I just think he's not good enough to not consider trading back from.

[Number9]

The Titans have to take somebody.  They can get a top five player with the pick at #2.  Let's take a trade out because it doesn't look to be shaping up that way.  So, if they do not take Williams, who do you want?  Who will you be happy walking away with?

[Downtown]

No matter who we choose at #2, folks around here are going to be disappointed. Williams has been a bit of fools gold for me from the beginning of the process and I can't shake the association of talented USC players who just don't give a damn in the NFL. The odds of finding an elite lineman at the top of the draft are very close to finding any elite player at the top of the draft. #2 doesn't guarantee a player's success, it only guarantees the accessibility to ALL of the talent in the draft. I don't think any of these players will come in to our squad and be a pro-bowl caliber player in year one. Only a QB could come in and translate their talent to wins instantly. 

[TitansGuru]

The Titans have to take somebody.  They can get a top five player with the pick at #2.  Let's take a trade out because it doesn't look to be shaping up that way.  So, if they do not take Williams, who do you want?  Who will you be happy walking away with?

 

[Number9]

No matter who we choose at #2, folks around here are going to be disappointed. Williams has been a bit of fools gold for me from the beginning of the process and I can't shake the association of talented USC players who just don't give a damn in the NFL. The odds of finding an elite lineman at the top of the draft are very close to finding any elite player at the top of the draft. #2 doesn't guarantee a player's success, it only guarantees the accessibility to ALL of the talent in the draft. I don't think any of these players will come in to our squad and be a pro-bowl caliber player in year one. Only a QB could come in and translate their talent to wins instantly. 

I agree, although I think the Freak would say there are exceptions.  The thing is Mariota isn't the answer.  This defense could use some help up front.  Williams isn't expected to come in and carry the team, but added to what we already have he makes the Titans front a force against any team.  The Titans have a ton of needs and he would fill one.  The chances of getting a player like him later in the draft are zero.  Whereas, if they pick right they can get another really good player at #33.

[Downtown]

I agree, although I think the Freak would say there are exceptions.

 

 The chances of getting a player like him later in the draft are zero.  

I concur that The Freak was just that…a Freak. 

 

But in response to your assumption that we wouldn't be able to find a lineman of elite caliber later in the draft, I present our own 3rd round pick, Jurrell Casey...

[IsntLifeFunny]

Suh played two gap at Nebraska almost exclusively and still put up insane numbers. The point about how many plays Williams had to play at USC is a great one. He was overused they had no choice.

He put up better numbers than Suh:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/leonard-williams-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ndamukong-suh-1.html

[socaltitan]

Justin Houston was a 3rd round pick. Greg Hardy was a 6th round pick

[Guest]

 

 

 A QB or dominate edge rusher. 

 

A hallmark of Lebeau's teams forever are dominant rush backers coming off the edge.