This site and head coaches?!

[Mythos27]

1 hour ago, Callidus said:

Their strength of schedule is .360, I hope they are exceeding your expectations. They also havent exactly been killing that garbage competition. 1/4 of their positive point differential came against us. Take that out and they are outscoring the dregs of the nfl by a whole 6ppg. Even with our game in there it only is 7.3

 

Not exactly alot of wiggle room. 

All of that is true but this is NFL. Winning games close is the norm. Also, while their roster IS talented, I wouldn't put them even in the top 5 most talented teams and those are the type of teams you'd look to for consistent blowouts and such. I think if you can put the Vrabel of it all aside, it's hard to not be objectively impressed at the turn around that has occurred up here. NE has been one of the worst teams in the league since Brady retired and these guys got things fixed up in a year. If the next coach/front office we get does something similar for us, I doubt we'll be quibbling about the quality of opponents and margins of victory. IMO, that's petty stuff because posters here don't like Vrabel. 

Edited November 10 by Mythos27

[oldschool]

30 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

All of that is true but this is NFL. Winning games close is the norm. Also, while their roster IS talented, I wouldn't put them even in the top 5 most talented teams and those are the type of teams you'd look to for consistent blowouts and such. I think if you can put the Vrabel of it all aside, it's hard to not be objectively impressed at the turn around that has occurred up here. NE has been one of the worst teams in the league since Brady retired and these guys got things fixed up in a year. If the next coach/front office we get does something similar for us, I doubt we'll be quibbling about the quality of opponents and margins of victory. IMO, that's petty stuff because posters here don't like Vrabel. 

 

The majority of what's going on in NE is due to Maye period. I told you last year he would be the best of the that QB class. You could see flashes of it and in year 2, its come together for him. Top 10 QB plus a weak schedule puts the Pats in a great situation. I'll give them credit for beating the Bucs yesterday but the rest is premature.

[Mythos27]

20 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

The majority of what's going on in NE is due to Maye period. I told you last year he would be the best of the that QB class. You could see flashes of it and in year 2, its come together for him. Top 10 QB plus a weak schedule puts the Pats in a great situation. I'll give them credit for beating the Bucs yesterday but the rest is premature.

Of course it is. They've got a young QB playing out of his mind. However, that young QB was nowhere near this level of play a year ago. Certainly the majority of the improvement is coming from his personal growth but he is also being provided with fertile ground to grow in that he didn't have. 3 of the touchdowns yesterday were scored by guys that weren't there last year and 2 of them were running TDs that Maye had little to do with. That team is much more talented than it was just a year ago and since you're on record that Vrabel is essentially the GM then he also gets credit for that no? 

 

Either way, the point is that they're a good football team and finding little ways to diminish it because we don't like the coach is petty. The guy we fired is having a good season elsewhere. This board is the only place that this is a controversial statement. 

Edited November 10 by Mythos27

[oldschool]

32 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Of course it is. They've got a young QB playing out of his mind. However, that young QB was nowhere near this level of play a year ago. Certainly the majority of the improvement is coming from his personal growth but he is also being provided with fertile ground to grow in that he didn't have. 3 of the touchdowns yesterday were scored by guys that weren't there last year and 2 of them were running TDs that Maye had little to do with. That team is much more talented than it was just a year ago and since you're on record that Vrabel is essentially the GM then he also gets credit for that no? 

 

Either way, the point is that they're a good football team and finding little ways to diminish it because we don't like the coach is petty. The guy we fired is having a good season elsewhere. This board is the only place that this is a controversial statement. 

 

Funny you are now claiming coaching matters...

 

And yes, Vrabel has hit on several key additions to the squad this year and deserves credit for it. He also inherited a franchise QB, a shutdown Corner, and a legit pass rusher in Chaisson as well as other key pieces on def like Williams. The building blocks were all there... The idea he took over a team devoid of talent is laughable.

[Mythos27]

16 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

Funny you are now claiming coaching matters...

 

And yes, Vrabel has hit on several key additions to the squad this year and deserves credit for it. He also inherited a franchise QB, a shutdown Corner, and a legit pass rusher in Chaisson as well as other key pieces on def like Williams. The building blocks were all there... The idea he took over a team devoid of talent is laughable.

Oh good lord. No one ever said coaching doesn't matter. I'm also attributing the overwhelming majority of the improvement to the increase in talent rather than Vrabel himself. Nothing I'm saying is inconsistent with anything I've said previously. Also the only good players he inherited were an inconsistent Maye, and emerging Boutte, and Gonzo. Chaisson was signed this pat March in FA along with Landry, another guy people here prematurely decided was bad at his job. That roster was NOT in a good place even last year and I'd say that like 70% of the starters are new this year. I watched the team often last year; it was pretty bad. Coaches can only do so much but what Vrabel can do within his scope he has done well. That's all that's being said. People just get triggered when Vrabel gets brought up because apparently that wound is still fresh lmao. Shit, the talent acquisition has been SO good that I'm starting to question just how involved Vrabel actually is since he was so bad at it here. Either he's not the czar posters here think he is or he got a lot better at identifying talent. My guess is option 1 and the guys around him have more influence than people think. 

Edited November 10 by Mythos27

[scine09]

The Patriots last year were better than their record indicated.  Not that it takes away from what they're doing this year but they lost a game in OT to Seattle, a game at the end to Miami, at Tennessee in OT, a game at the end to the Colts and at the end at Buffalo.  Their coaching last year was terrible.  Couple that with a top flight QB, the easiest schedule in the league and I would assume that it's the easiest schedule a team has had in some time (12 of their 17 games this year are against terrible teams or teams who might sniff nine wins) and an improvement in coaching and it's a perfect storm for a turnaround.

[Mythos27]

3 minutes ago, scine09 said:

The Patriots last year were better than their record indicated.  Not that it takes away from what they're doing this year but they lost a game in OT to Seattle, a game at the end to Miami, at Tennessee in OT, a game at the end to the Colts and at the end at Buffalo.  Their coaching last year was terrible.  Couple that with a top flight QB, the easiest schedule in the league and I would assume that it's the easiest schedule a team has had in some time (12 of their 17 games this year are against terrible teams or teams who might sniff nine wins) and an improvement in coaching and it's a perfect storm for a turnaround.

You're the only person I've spoken to that lives up here that doesn't think last year's team was hot garbage. The only times the offense looked OK was when passing to Hunter Henry and Boutte. That team sucked ass. 

[scine09]

3 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

You're the only person I've spoken to that lives up here that doesn't think last year's team was hot garbage. The only times the offense looked OK was when passing to Hunter Henry and Boutte. That team sucked ass. 

I don't watch all their games.  In fact I watch very few of them.  I'm going on the results and that they easily could've won several more games than they did and the common theme that I heard is coaching held them back.

Edited November 10 by scine09

[Mythos27]

Just now, scine09 said:

I don't watch all their games.  In fact I watch very few of them.  I'm going on the results and that they easily could've won several more games than they did and the common theme that I heard is coachig held them back.

I watched the games; they were bad. I was more surprised when they won games. Inconsistent passing offense, mediocre running offense that lacked an explosive element, weak pass rush, a terrible secondary outside of Gonzo and you know how much time he misses due to injury. It was a bad team overall. You don't have like 70% new starters only a year later if the roster was decent. I think the only guys that returned as starters from last year are Gonzo, Boutte, Henry, Maye, Onwenu, Eliss, and Marcus Jones. I don't know how anyone could watch that team play and conclude they weren't terrible. 

[scine09]

8 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I watched the games; they were bad. I was more surprised when they won games. Inconsistent passing offense, mediocre running offense that lacked an explosive element, weak pass rush, a terrible secondary outside of Gonzo and you know how much time he misses due to injury. It was a bad team overall. You don't have like 70% new starters only a year later if the roster was decent. I think the only guys that returned as starters from last year are Gonzo, Boutte, Henry, Maye, Onwenu, Eliss, and Marcus Jones. I don't know how anyone could watch that team play and conclude they weren't terrible. 

I'm going on the fact that they should've won the Colts game and lost several others at the end, including two in OT.  They were competitive.  It's not like the 2025 Titans.

 

I said to my brother, a Patriots fan, that Callahan may be the worst coach I've ever seen and he said that the stuff he was doing was commonplace for Jerod Mayo.

Edited November 10 by scine09

[Mythos27]

8 minutes ago, scine09 said:

I'm going on the fact that they should've won the Colts game and lost several others at the end, including two in OT.  They were competitive.  It's not like the 2025 Titans.

 

I said to my brother, a Patriots fan, that Callahan may be the worst coach I've ever seen and he said that the stuff he was doing was commonplace for Jerod Mayo.

I agree that they weren't as bad as the 2025 Titans. We are all-time terrible; they were garden-variety bad. Mayo certainly was in over his head though. His handling of the media was dare I say, worse than Callahan's. X's and O's wise I can't tell how bad they were because I certainly wasn't breaking down film of the 4-13 Patriots lol. I think It's safe to say they've massively improved on both the coaching and the player fronts but I'm sure you know which improvement I think has been more consequential. 

[scine09]

20 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I agree that they weren't as bad as the 2025 Titans. We are all-time terrible; they were garden-variety bad. Mayo certainly was in over his head though. His handling of the media was dare I say, worse than Callahan's. X's and O's wise I can't tell how bad they were because I certainly wasn't breaking down film of the 4-13 Patriots lol. I think It's safe to say they've massively improved on both the coaching and the player fronts but I'm sure you know which improvement I think has been more consequential. 

I don't see why the Titans can't improve over this year (they couldn't get much worse) but even if the coaching gets massively better (again, it couldn't get much worse) and Ward takes a leap I don't see how this team isn't still a basement level team next year.  They don't have the baseline players that the Patriots had (top five QB, pass rusher, shutdown CB).  I know you can't predict these things year to year but the Titans aren't likely going to get the benefit of an all-time easy schedule as they play the NFC East, the last place team from the NFC North who will be formidable no matter who it is (probably Minnesota I'd say), the AFC North which should be better with Burrow coming back, the Jets and Raiders.  You'd think it'll be easier than this year's schedule but who knows.  Also, I don't think Ward has the potential to be as good as Maye. 

 

Speaking of the schedule, this really is the year that the Patriots need to take advantage of.  They're in all likelihood going to be the #1 seed in the AFC.  I'm sure it's happened before but I can't remember a team with a schedule like this.  If you look ahead to next year they're going to have to play the AFC West and NFC North, so seven of the eight teams you'd think will be competitive, likely the Colts, likely the winner of the NFC West and either the Steelers or Ravens.  They'll go from an all-time easy schedule to an incredibly difficult schedule where they may actually be improved but not have as good a record.

Edited November 10 by scine09

[Mythos27]

44 minutes ago, scine09 said:

I don't see why the Titans can't improve over this year (they couldn't get much worse) but even if the coaching gets massively better (again, it couldn't get much worse) and Ward takes a leap I don't see how this team isn't still a basement level team next year.  They don't have the baseline players that the Patriots had (top five QB, pass rusher, shutdown CB).  I know you can't predict these things year to year but the Titans aren't likely going to get the benefit of an all-time easy schedule as they play the NFC East, the last place team from the NFC North who will be formidable no matter who it is (probably Minnesota I'd say), the AFC North which should be better with Burrow coming back, the Jets and Raiders.  You'd think it'll be easier than this year's schedule but who knows.  Also, I don't think Ward has the potential to be as good as Maye. 

 

Speaking of the schedule, this really is the year that the Patriots need to take advantage of.  They're in all likelihood going to be the #1 seed in the AFC.  I'm sure it's happened before but I can't remember a team with a schedule like this.  If you look ahead to next year they're going to have to play the AFC West and NFC North, so seven of the eight teams you'd think will be competitive, likely the Colts, likely the winner of the NFC West and either the Steelers or Ravens.  They'll go from an all-time easy schedule to an incredibly difficult schedule where they may actually be improved but not have as good a record.

I'm right along with in terms of having difficulty picturing the Titans being competitive as soon as next year. We are as bad top to bottom as any team I've ever seen. That said, as unlikely as it is, turn arounds like the Patriots are possible. Usually when teams churn the roster over, the next year they're decent at best. The turn-around up there is even more impressive than the one Washington had because it's not  just the QB; entire position groups have gone from being filled with bums to good/great players. If Borgo is the guy we can hope to be at least respectable next year though. Shit just has to break our way. 

[scine09]

24 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I'm right along with in terms of having difficulty picturing the Titans being competitive as soon as next year. We are as bad top to bottom as any team I've ever seen. That said, as unlikely as it is, turn arounds like the Patriots are possible. Usually when teams churn the roster over, the next year they're decent at best. The turn-around up there is even more impressive than the one Washington had because it's not  just the QB; entire position groups have gone from being filled with bums to good/great players. If Borgo is the guy we can hope to be at least respectable next year though. Shit just has to break our way. 

It happened to the Jets and Miami.  Both went from 1-15 to 9-7 and 11-5 the next year respectively.  It can happen.  The 2007 Dolphins were terrible.  They went 11-5 and won the AFC East the next year.  It's possible.  Not likely, but pssible.

 

Mike Borgonzi has seen it himself.  He was in the 2012 KC front office when they went 2-14.  The next year they made the playoffs and they haven't been under .500 since, having made it every year but one.

 

I thought Washington was a fluke.  They were winning games in weird ways, games they probably should have lost.  While the Daniels injury couldn't have been foreseen I think they were an easy under bet this year.

Edited November 10 by scine09

[SleepingTitan]

17 hours ago, scine09 said:

Vrabel was out the door the moment it became clear that the Patriots job was going to be available.

If this shit happened to any other owner, there would be hell to pay