IsntLifeFunny Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 9 hours ago, Justafan said: The Democrats are not conservative by any standard. That's a myth. It isn't a myth whatsoever. Conservatives in other Western Nations would be considered socialists in the US. Most Democrats would be considered conservatives in their nations. That is 100% correct regarding Western Democracies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 10 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: It isn't a myth whatsoever. Conservatives in other Western Nations would be considered socialists in the US. Most Democrats would be considered conservatives in their nations. That is 100% correct regarding Western Democracies. I lived in Europe for 6 years and my wife is Italian, and we both keep up with politics pretty well. You can say the lie over and over again, but it doesn't make it true. Germany, France, Britain, Italy, and other European countries have a populist movement right now in opposition to the Socialist democratic parties, but to pretend like it's some leap to get from their politics to ours is seriously mistaken or that our Democratic party would be considered conservative over there is a complete joke. They have literal fascist parties in Europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 Just now, Justafan said: I lived in Europe for 6 years and my wife is Italian, and we both keep up with politics pretty well. You can say the lie over and over again, but it doesn't make it true. Germany, France, Britain, Italy, and other European countries have a populist movement right now in opposition to the Socialist democratic parties, but to pretend like it's some leap to get from their politics to ours is seriously mistaken or that our Democratic party would be considered conservative over there is a complete joke. They have literal fascist parties in Europe. I'm not talking about with social issues like immigration and DEI type things. I'm talking more along the lines of workers rights and Healthcare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Justafan said: They have literal fascist parties in Europe We do, too… OILERMAN, and Jamalisms 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 Just now, IsntLifeFunny said: I'm not talking about with social issues like immigration and DEI type things. I'm talking more along the lines of workers rights and Healthcare. American Democrats would love to move in that direction, though. The supreme court is what's stopping them, not their centrist views. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 Just now, Starkiller said: We do, too… Oh, just stop already. If you aren't interested in having a reasonable discussion just keep it to yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 Just now, Justafan said: American Democrats would love to move in that direction, though. The supreme court is what's stopping them, not their centrist views. Nah, not really. They had to pull teeth to get Obamacare, which is nothing more than an exchange where contract workers can get Healthcare while also barring private insurers from stopping those with ore-existing conditions from being covered. The filibuster stops any notion of socialized Healthcare, not the Supreme Court. Starkiller, and MadMax 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 But either way, I think you see my point and I do see yours as well. The mass immigration from Syria and Libya has led to a pushback in European countries. I don't blame them on that front. Unfettered immigration is one thing I lean to the conservative side, but more in line with Reagan conservatism than neo-conservstism, or especially Trumpism (outright demagoguery). Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: Nah, not really. They had to pull teeth to get Obamacare, which is nothing more than an exchange where contract workers can get Healthcare while also barring private insurers from stopping those with ore-existing conditions from being covered. The filibuster stops any notion of socialized Healthcare, not the Supreme Court. You can get around a fillibuster. They've done it in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 Just now, Justafan said: You can get around a fillibuster. They've done it in the past. Only with a super majority, and I don't think that's happening anytime soon. The first hurdle isn't even the filibuster. You simply are not going to get even 50 Dem senators to vote for universal healthcare. 60 with the filibuster? Hell to the no, not happening. Add in the backstop of the Supreme Court and it isn't happening even though some form of it should. I still say the Public Option is the correct direction and see how it works. Right now all the exchanges are localized to state and still run through private insurers. A public option would be a good test run. BTW, over in Europe what did the people think of their healthcare systems? From my encounters with Europeans, Aussies & New Zealanders, the overwhelming majority think their system works pretty damn well and is equitable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 I have heard complaints from all of the above, and especially with Canadians being the leading gripers. There's flaws in every system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 15 minutes ago, Justafan said: Oh, just stop already. If you aren't interested in having a reasonable discussion just keep it to yourself. This is a totally reasonable interpretation of what fascism is. If you disagree then please define fascism… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 32 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: Only with a super majority, and I don't think that's happening anytime soon. The first hurdle isn't even the filibuster. You simply are not going to get even 50 Dem senators to vote for universal healthcare. 60 with the filibuster? Hell to the no, not happening. Add in the backstop of the Supreme Court and it isn't happening even though some form of it should. I still say the Public Option is the correct direction and see how it works. Right now all the exchanges are localized to state and still run through private insurers. A public option would be a good test run. BTW, over in Europe what did the people think of their healthcare systems? From my encounters with Europeans, Aussies & New Zealanders, the overwhelming majority think their system works pretty damn well and is equitable. They can pass legislation through reconciliation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 27 minutes ago, Starkiller said: This is a totally reasonable interpretation of what fascism is. If you disagree then please define fascism… I've had enough of your lunacy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strunk'sDessert Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 54 minutes ago, Justafan said: I lived in Europe for 6 years and my wife is Italian, and we both keep up with politics pretty well. You can say the lie over and over again, but it doesn't make it true. Germany, France, Britain, Italy, and other European countries have a populist movement right now in opposition to the Socialist democratic parties, but to pretend like it's some leap to get from their politics to ours is seriously mistaken or that our Democratic party would be considered conservative over there is a complete joke. They have literal fascist parties in Europe. I'm not discounting your lived experiences at all. You can point to the different countries zeitgeists and point to specific legislatures and their beliefs to point against this, and you'd be correct. If you were to take the average Dem and have them list out their political beliefs, they'd probably fall center left or center right in terms of political science's definitions and where they land on a spectrum. Based on Bidens record, he's center right based on the definitions of that spectrum. Disagree with those political scientists and their definitions, but that's what a slew of them over time have decided, although it's ever changing. IsntLifeFunny 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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