How do you rate JRob.

[Number9]

54 minutes ago, BudAdams said:

 

Robinson was not forced Mariota.  He openly applied for the job.  Where I get some disconnect with Robinson and the organization as a whole is that they from the get go acted like Mariota was an elite, franchise QB when it is very clear that he had flaws from the get go and very much was schemed into relative success.  Of course, 2016 looks better on the final stat sheet that what really happened.  Mariota was pretty bad in the first 4 games and had poor games versus Denver and Jacksonville at the end.  Add in that in 2015 and 2016 he ended on IR. 

 

I do know that the team basically took QB off their board in both 2016/2017 when in fact you can argue that hedging their bet on MM would have been the right move much like Washington did with RGIII and Cousins.  As such, players like Wentz, Prescott, Mahomes, and Watson were all potential picks that were not even considered because they were all in on Mariota. 

 

As for KC, I'll give you Veach came in only in July 2017 so credit prior goes to Dorsey and some for Reid for picking Mahomes, which they did while having a pretty productive QB in place with Smith.  They saw Mahomes as a rare talent and upgrade.  Fun fact - Seattle was interested and they had Wilson and NO loved him while having Brees.  The Titans, of course, were content with their QB situation.  Bottom line, though, is that KC has won their division 4 straight seasons and the playoffs 5 out of the last 6 years with 10+ wins in all of those.  Only one of them was with Mahomes. 

 

That's the kind of sustained success I want to see out of the Titans before I proclaim this regime as great.  The fan base's bar of expectations is shockingly low.  I remember in the Oilers days when the playoffs alone were not good enough.

 

The Titans HC had a caveat.  Keep Mularkey to develop MM.  That's why a lot of "so called" top GM candidates refused to even interview for the job.  The GM had to keep MM as the QB.  JRob got rid of Mularkey, but no way he gets rid of Mariota.  Mariota was the QB of the team that won the playoff game.  He had to start Mariota in 2018 and I suspect Management wanted his lovable personality to be face of the franchise.  You have to admit 100% there was no way JRob could have gotten rid of Mariota in 2018. 

 

That leaves 2019, Mariota is on the bench and JRob has brought in a QB who can play.  He has maneuvered through all this to have a team capable of beat Kansas City.  Who on your list has shown this type of skill?  You dismiss what he has done when lots of GM would be walking out the door, not having a clue how to fill a team with this restriction with enough talent to win 6 games, let alone 9.

 

You say JRob is not great, I agree.  Great GM win SB.  

[BudsOilers]

1 minute ago, Number9 said:

 

The Titans HC had a caveat.  Keep Mularkey to develop MM.  That's why a lot of "so called" top GM candidates refused to even interview for the job.  The GM had to keep MM as the QB.  JRob got rid of Mularkey, but no way he gets rid of Mariota.  Mariota was the QB of the team that won the playoff game.  He had to start Mariota in 2018 and I suspect Management wanted his lovable personality to be face of the franchise.  You have to admit 100% there was no way JRob could have gotten rid of Mariota in 2018. 

 

That leaves 2019, Mariota is on the bench and JRob has brought in a QB who can play.  He has maneuvered through all this to have a team capable of beat Kansas City.  Who on your list has shown this type of skill?  You dismiss what he has done when lots of GM would be walking out the door, not having a clue how to fill a team with this restriction with enough talent to win 6 games, let alone 9.

 

You say JRob is not great, I agree.  Great GM win SB.  

 

Here's where we disconnect.  Robinson, along with Ballard, Mayhew, Sundquist, and Polian all interviewed knowing that Mariota, at least at the time, was the QBOF coming off year 1.  DeCosta and Patton declined to interview.  Robinson presented his plan, knowing he was getting Mariota and Mularkey as a peer.   Fast forward one year.  Robinson gets a promotion to EVP of Football Operations and now has more power than Mularkey.  Robinson got rid of Mularkey by selling AAS that Mariota and others were not being used to their potential, even with the consecutive winning records and a playoff appearance.  As the result of this, Robinson gained control of the coaching staff and hired Vrabel and LaFluer but it was all in for Mariota - after his suck ass 2017 season which in reality was what he really was as a player.  Yeah, he couldn't on one hand argue the coaches were why Mariota was failing and then in turn get rid of Mariota.  That in itself doesn't make his assessment of the situation correct.  It clearly wasn't coaching and how they had to use him in 2018 and 2019 more than proves that.

 

Add in the story about how Tannehill's agent contacted Robinson and helped broker the trade to Tennessee, where it was clearly outlined in the discussions as a backup QB trade in terms of compensation.  Followed up by Robinson immediately endorsing Mariota as the clear starter and Tannehill as the backup.  We can argue semantics here but it's pretty clear that Robinson was heavily involved in the pecking order (various reports say the coaches wanted to go with RT) and we saw firsthand how it took way more time than needed to switch. 

 

The bottom line is that Robinson arguably has as much control as any GM in the game.  The entire roster is a decision he's touched (draft, FA, extension).  The coaching staff was hired by him.  The end product is his - good or bad.  Winning 9 games a year is better than winning 2 or 3 but that doesn't make him great. 

 

I did compare this to some of the Mariota stuff because now I'm some kind of Robinson hater.  Hardly so but he's not a great GM until we are seeing years of playoff runs.  He's shown he can build a competitive team.  He needs to do more.  He's even said so himself.  Good to great.

 

[NashvilleNinja]

In JRob I Trust.

[BudsOilers]

Just now, NashvilleNinja said:

In JRob I Trust.

 

Uh oh

[Number9]

@BudAdams we pretty much agree on everything, our difference is the conclusion.  I happily say JRob is a good GM and you begrudgingly say he is a good GM.  The QB position makes coaches and QB can make GM too.  They can kill GM.  JRob has survived Mariota, while dealing with AAS admiration and respect for Marcus.

 

If Mariota had gotten hurt this year, as expected he would have been replaced by RT.  Then as long as RT played well, Marcus would continue to recover.  After a half dozen good games where he showed himself to be the best option, RT would remain the starter.  It RT was here last year, beat Houston, Jacksonville and won a few more games, Mariota would have been back out there.

 

You know more than anyone the battle Mariota supporters would have put up if JRob tried to make a move on him sooner.  Fans watched all of last season and were still happy to see him back as the teams starter.  An open competition would not have flown with this fanbase.  Why we had just Cassel and Gabbert, IDK.

 

All I really want to see is fans and coaches not get nitpicked to death when they are doing a very good job.  I said two years ago I was not going to watch people ridicule the WR for not catching uncatchable balls.  It didn't happen here this year, but lots of fans claimed the only problem the team had was the OL and receivers who couldn't catch.  

 

You are a sharp guy and know a lot about football.  If you say JRob sucks, it has weight.  I think we are going to have some tough going the rest of this season.  We might just win a couple more games.  We have to be careful who we blame for the teams failures.  I think Vrabel is a good coach. He has drawn a tough hand, two years in a row.  This year, the anchor of the OL is suspended, injuries have hit and his must start QB imploded.  

 

A lot of fans think we can just fire Vrabel and get a better coach.  Send JRob packing and get a better GM.  But is that what would actually happen?  Usually the teams that switch coaches and GM all the time don't do well.  Sure young GM and coaches will make some mistakes.  But it best serves us to allow them to develop, especially when they have shown promise.

[BudsOilers]

I just think AAS admiration for Mariota is completely oversold by many in part as a defense of Robinson.  AAS, since becoming controlling owner, has never meddled into the on the field stuff while doing everything an owner should do - hire good people, spend money for players and facilities, trying to improve the game day experience, etc.  Robinson is her right hand man for the football side of things.

 

I've never said Robinson sucks.  I do think he's overrated on TR in terms of being a great, unquestioned GM.  I've disagreed with some of his moves and methods of building the team.  What I am consistent on, though, is that he's unquestionably the head of football operations - he has control of the roster (again every player on the team now was either drafted, signed, or extended by him).  He hired Vrabel and LaFluer.

 

As for the QB handling once they got Tannehill, it was handled poorly.  They should have played the best player from the get go and there was no valid reason why it was not an open competition, especially once they saw in OTA's that Tannehill was a much better passer than Mariota.  Let the fan base cry about it but I honestly believe that would have been quickly mitigated once the preseason started.  It was plain as day that the offense was better with RT.

 

I'm not on firing anyone but at the same time this regime needs to start consistently winning.  Going 9-7 and being a fringe playoff contender should not be the bar of expectations any more.  Robinson deserves some credit for that but in the same vein Mularkey also changed the culture here too. 

 

[tgo]

5 minutes ago, BudAdams said:

 

 I do think he's overrated on TR in terms of being a great, unquestioned GM. 

 

 

Blasphemy. 

[Number9]

9 minutes ago, BudAdams said:

 

I've never said Robinson sucks. 

I wasn't saying you said he sucks.  I was just saying lots of people listen to what you say and they know you are knowledgeable about football.

[BudsOilers]

Fair enough.  I do think we have to see how the year finishes.  Hopefully, the six games wasted on Mariota don't come back to cost them but it very well could. 

 

I will say in all of this discussion, Robinson did an awful job hedging against Succop and that also was a factor in losing games.  Compounded by perhaps bringing Succop back early when Parkey actually was kicking fine.

[StephenIsLegend]

5 hours ago, JakePA_Titan said:

Get off the tough schedule BS. It wasn't tough at all. 

 

We've played only 4 teams to this point with a winning record.

 

One of them lost to the fucking Dolphins at home and one lost to the Browns who we stomped. 

 

And we beat the already HOFer in Mahommes. 

 

Take Mariota off the team and we would have owned this pathetic schedule we had. 

 

Would have never lost to DEN and BUF, would be 7-3 and probably would have even beat JAX and IND. 

 

Schedule has been weak af. We just had a fucking weak QB that made it tougher than it was. Fact.

 

Oh, should I mention the fucked up in game decisions by Vrabel? TEN beat themselves more than the oh so tough schedule has. 

Oh, so your dumbass thinks that the schedule is a cupcake the last six weeks? It’s been a rough schedule, but this team has a lot of talent. 

[woolfolksunclesuncle]

Football management: A-

 

Sex appeal: D+

[GOAT9]

Oman is an Expert Analyst and he says JR sucks. Anybody with common sense would not have a HB like Henry that "limits the offense." We were much better off with Sankey and McCluster, and a pass heavy offense under Wiz. 

[Number9]

@GOAT9

[Supernope]

Not invested in the topic enough to go back and read Budadams life story, but I think he's pretty good, especially in the later rounds of the draft.  Sadly good qbs don't find themselves there often.  

[StephenIsLegend]

2 hours ago, JakePA_Titan said:

Everything I talked about was past tense while using words and phrases such as "wasn't" and "have only played" and was obviously referring to the schedule we already got through being more weak than tough. Any dumbass should be able to comprehend that. Perhaps show me what confused you and led you to believe I was talking about weeks 12 through 17?

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other

 

Fuck what ppl said in June. How's it rank to this point in the season? 

 

Looks more easy than it was tough....

 

As far as the remaining six weeks (that I was not referring to earlier)

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/ranking/future-sos-by-other

 

12th is slightly above average. A challenge, sure. Tough? Wouldn't go that far. 

 

Houston's future SOS power sits at 6. They have to play us twice. So it looks like the road to the division title is easier for us than it is for them...IND only sits at 14....slightly easier than us. 

 

We have our bye this week. That is a big advantage for us going forward. 

 

Jaguars

Colts

Texans 2x

Saints

Raiders

 

No, I dont see that remaining list of opponents as that tough unless you want to use the whole "division games are always tough".

 

HOU, JAX, and IND are not much better than us if at all. As long as we execute and don't commit stupid penalties, we should win 3 of those 4. 

 

Outside of NO, all of these games definitely seem winnable. So I wouldn't necessarily say tough. Going to OAK and winning given the confidence they currently have will be tough, I admit. But that is definitely not a schedule I fear. 

I was making an assumption based on your retarded statement.