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Lebron James greatest of all time


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On 7/8/2020 at 12:22 PM, CaliTitan3518 said:

Shaq was dominate in his prime. He just didn't dominate at the end of his career. Probably played 4-5 seasons too many. He also could have dominated way more had he not been such a slap dick during the off season and early parts of the season. Thats why I don't think he belongs in the top 5. He could have easily been a top 5 all time player if he had wanted to be. So in terms of prime ability I could see the argument. 

 

Jordan, Kareem and Russell are mandatory top 5 IMO. Then there are another handful or so that could fill out the 4-5 spot. Lebron, Wilt, Magic, Kobe, Duncan, Bird, Shaq West, Robertson etc. 

 

Olajuwon and Dr. J would be the etc.

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It shouldn't have to be said, but Jordan wins the greatest of all time award.

Michael is by far the best professional athlete of all time. Nobody will reach his icon status, his competitive drive and will to win. Lebron is a cry baby that plays in an era with more cry babies th

Fuck LeBron James.

5 hours ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

Giannis, 26 year old, 8th season vs LeBron, 26 year old, 8th season

 

https://stathead.com/tiny/K7zPA

 

They are very close... Time will tell, but Giannis has a chance to be top-5 player ever

I just don't think he'll ever be in the conversation because general stats that are easy to talk about. He hopefully will have all the accolades that you could ask for but until he can shoot like he did last night he won't even sniff that convo.

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7 hours ago, wiscotitansfan said:

until he can shoot like he did last night he won't even sniff that convo.

LOL? Giannis is pretty effiecent....besides his 3PT shot...He's a 28% career 3 point shooter, and a 71% career free throw shooter. If he can get that three point percentage into the 30s and that free throw percentage into the upper 70s, he becomes completely unstoppable. 

 

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1 hour ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

LOL? Giannis is pretty effiecent....besides his 3PT shot...He's a 28% career 3 point shooter, and a 71% career free throw shooter. If he can get that three point percentage into the 30s and that free throw percentage into the upper 70s, he becomes completely unstoppable. 

 

Agreed. I just don’t think he’ll actually get to the point of “unstoppable” that what seems like you and obviously I both want… he does that for a couple more playoffs and he’s in the debate of best of all time

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6 hours ago, wiscotitansfan said:

Agreed. I just don’t think he’ll actually get to the point of “unstoppable” that what seems like you and obviously I both want… he does that for a couple more playoffs and he’s in the debate of best of all time

He's only 26 and has done more than everyone on that list by 26 other than Kareem

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51 minutes ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

He's only 26 and has done more than everyone on that list by 26 other than Kareem

I get that. I am just saying that until he gets a good shot, whether warranted or not, most people just won’t talk of him that way. 
 

Never said that he shouldn’t deserve the respect you’re talking about, just that the general consensus will likely be a vast understatement and most fans won’t even put him in the tier you’re talking about until he (likely never) develops a fade away or jumper night in and night out. 

Edited by wiscotitansfan
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36 minutes ago, wiscotitansfan said:

I get that. I am just saying that until he gets a good shot, whether warranted or not, most people just won’t talk of him that way. 
 

Never said that he shouldn’t deserve the respect you’re talking about, just that the general consensus will likely be a vast understatement and most fans won’t even put him in the tier you’re talking about until he (likely never) develops a fade away or jumper night in and night out. 

Thats the most ridiculous statement I ever heard. He doesnt need to "develop"  a jumpshop to be in the top 5 or a fadeway shot..... Two points is two points. It doesnt matter how you put the ball in the basket. I mean i'd suspect guys lik Kellerman, Skip or Stephen A Smith try to discredit Giannis with that argument, but it is a really stupid one when you really think about it.....

 

I mean should we discredit Currys greatness and say that "majority of his points come from shooting from the permeter".....

 

Shaq never could shoot, he is still regarded as a top player of all time...and alot of people have him in the top 5....

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18 minutes ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

I mean i'd suspect guys lik Kellerman, Skip or Stephen A Smith try to discredit Giannis with that argument, but it is a really stupid one when you really think about it.....

18 minutes ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

Shaq never could shoot, he is still regarded as a top player of all time...and alot of people have him in the top 5....

 

I agree. But in Shaq's case (at least not to the extent I believe [was 10-15 at  the time]), fans weren't told over and over and over what he can't do every time his name is brought up.

 

It may be recency bias but I don't ever remember every Shaq conversation starting with him not hitting free throws and mentioning how hack-a-shaq was a thing when talking about what he did so well. I was moreso getting at how the Skip's and Steven A's have so much power in how players are viewed, it seems like when referring to how elite Giannis is always is prefaced or connotated with a BUTTTTTTT.

 

I hope I'm wrong and 20 years down the line none of this shit matters in terms of the conversation but I just don't remember guys like Duncan or Shaq getting criticized every conversation of what they can't do like Giannis is.

Edited by wiscotitansfan
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1 hour ago, wiscotitansfan said:

 

I agree. But in Shaq's case (at least not to the extent I believe [was 10-15 at  the time]), fans weren't told over and over and over what he can't do every time his name is brought up.

 

It may be recency bias but I don't ever remember every Shaq conversation starting with him not hitting free throws and mentioning how hack-a-shaq was a thing when talking about what he did so well. I was moreso getting at how the Skip's and Steven A's have so much power in how players are viewed, it seems like when referring to how elite Giannis is always is prefaced or connotated with a BUTTTTTTT.

 

I hope I'm wrong and 20 years down the line none of this shit matters in terms of the conversation but I just don't remember guys like Duncan or Shaq getting criticized every conversation of what they can't do like Giannis is.

The notion that he cannot shoot is a false statement.

 

Giannis shot 50% on shots from 10-16 ft in the playoffs. 

 

Find the narrative against Giannis in the 4th interesting. Reminds me of Lebron. Just because he wasn’t taking stupid ISO fadeaways they said he wasn’t clutch in the 4th despite racking up points. A good chunk of people like to discredit guys that can’t really get their own shot from anywhere. They don’t realize that a jumper is always going to be somewhat inconsistent no matter how good you are. The only sure fire way to score is to dominate the paint. The top 10 players of all time is full of “no bag” physically dominant dudes. Lebron, Wilt, Magic,  Shaq, KAJ, and others couldn’t shoot. Making grown men look like kids as you run through them to the paint is a lot more effective and consistent than shooting jumpers.

Edited by unauthorizedcinnamon
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On 5/8/2018 at 11:45 AM, NashvilleNinja said:

LeBron also plays in an era where a team scoring 110-130 points per game is fairly common. Defense is an afterthought in modern ball.

 

When I think of LeBron I don't think of him in the "greatest of all time" conversation. He's basically a modern day Karl Malone. Still a great player, but greatest of all time?

 

 

tenor.gif

The most annoying and most ignorant basketball fans are the ones that thing players from the 80s or 90s would be so much better than today. Let me give you a reality check:

 

1. The game was not that much tougher. A bit sure but not much. Everyone points at the Bad Boy Pistons when they were an anomaly in the league. That's why they have their name. Actually go watch full games from the time period instead of reading twitter takes and watching highlights. The fouls Jordan got were just as laughable as the ones guys get today. 

 

2. The skill now is A LOT higher than back then. This doesn't just pertain to players skill. The film, the sets, the data, the schemes, and literally everything is levels above that time period. 

 

3. Most players from those eras wouldn't even sniff the league today. A note, I do not want to discredit those guys in any way because they were extremely great with what they had to work with. However, with modern technology and just general development of the sport? No chance. If you took 95% of the guys from the 80s and 90s and just dropped them in the league today they wouldn't make a roster. Again, this is not to discredit past greats. However, these people that say shit like "Jordan would average 50", "Bird would average 40", "Hakeem would average 40/20", etc need to shut the fuck up. No they wouldn't. They would not be as good relative to everyone else in the NBA as they were back then. 

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  • 3 months later...
On 7/23/2021 at 4:17 AM, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

The most annoying and most ignorant basketball fans are the ones that thing players from the 80s or 90s would be so much better than today.

 

There's nothing ignorant about that in the least, the game is completely different now than it was 30 years ago. It's that simple.

 

Sure players are bigger, faster, and more athletic today. But that's true in every single sport, not just basketball. It's impossible to compare players from different eras. Of course Wilt Chamberlain wouldn't do the amazing things he did 50-60 years ago if he played today. But what you said is 100% wrong. Just look at the pace of the game in the late 80's/early 90's plus the fact that defenders could get away with way more than they do now. The fact that Michael Jordan averaged 30 PPG in one of the lowest scoring eras in NBA history is astounding and proves that he is the GOAT.

 

LeBron isn't even close to MJ (neither is Curry). :rolleyes: The gap between LBJ and Jordan is far greater than the gap between him and Kobe.

Edited by Oiler FANatic
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There never really was much of a debate to begin with. If you want to talk about durability, Jordan played all 82 games in 9 of his 15 seasons while LeBron only managed to play in all 82 games (or all 66 in 2012) only once out of 19 seasons. Assuming LeBron is still around for the 2022-23 season, it's safe to assume he won't be playing all 82 games next season either. Jordan was smart enough to retire for the third time right after he turned 40 as his game had substantially diminished the two previous seasons. Whereas LeBron (soon to be 37) is steadily declining since his arrival in LA while missing 60 out of 230 games since he joined the Lakers because he refuses to accept the fact that he can no longer carry the team by himself.

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On 10/24/2021 at 12:15 AM, reo said:

This vid pretty much put this conversation to bed. The debate is over.

 

 

 

It isnt a debate. LeBron lost a chance of GOAT status when he laid a huge turd in the Finals vs Mavericks in 2011. He wasn't even the 2nd best player in that Finals series let alone the best player.

 

Having said all that he is easily a top 3 player of all time just behind Jordan or KAJ. 

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  • 4 months later...

I probably already said some of this.  You can't judge greatness, except by comparison of the player's elevation of himself above their peers.  Wilt Chamberlain was the most dominate player to grace the court, but he played for Wilt.  

 

Oscar Robinson was a legend.  During his prime, the Big O averaged 29.3pts, 8.5reb and 9.5 assists.  He averaged a triple double for five years.  He played in Cincy and wasn't surround with hardly any talent.  He was the best ball handler of his day.  The game was different.  When he played, the rules were different.  You couldn't carry the ball and you could only take ONE step before shooting the ball.

 

In today's game, you are allowed to take three steps if the dunk is amazing enough.  Oscar played all over the court and was a pure textbook shooter.  He would kill it shooting three's in today's game.  Medicine has advanced, so knees and ankles part of physical maintenance.

 

Michael, LeBron, Magic and Kobe.  Michael was a show and he benefited from cable TV.  People actually got to see him play for free every game.  He's hands down the most likable.  In Oscar's day, the NBA got one national TV game a week.  Cousy was a legend in his day.  Today's players are faster, larger and stronger.  They look like the greatest because we see them play.

 

 

 

My vote is for this guy.

 

 

 

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