AJClown Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 You also hear this argument Lebron makes role player 3 point shooters better and people say "he makes everyone better". He doesn't. He makes big men worse and significantly worse at that for the most part. Even AD has been awful outside of his first year compared to his expectations (even in his first year his stats took a dip). It's not just points it's also FG% which is weird because it should go up next to Lebron. Westbrook has become unplayable despite being pretty good last year as well. I'm not hating on Lebron but he's a ball dominant player that is borderline useless without the ball in his hands. He's not as bad as like Harden for instance off ball but still. "B-b-but of course stats will dip for other stars if Lebron is so ball dominant." Right but you don't get to have it both ways. You can't say Lebron makes EVERYONE better and then when other stars significantly tank next to him say "Lebron doesn't have as good of a cast as you think." AD was viewed as a top 5 player now he is "soft and not as good" (this was being parroted before AD even got hurt). Bosh last season on the Raptors: 24 PPG 52 EFG% First season on the Heat: 19 PPG 50% EFG Love last season on the Wolves: 26 PPG 52% EFG First season on the Cavs: 16 PPG 51% EFG Those are fucking absolutely abysmal dips. You can't even pull the "Well of course the PPG dipped because they have less of a role" So why does their FG% also dip playing next to "the greatest shot creator of all time?" Even the "selfish" Kobe had Gasols EFG % go up damn near 5% while maintaining his PPG. Lebron is the second best IMO but some of the narratives his fans spit out. Man... OG dude has the weirdest fans in sports. MFers would hold his nuts if he asked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 There's a really good vid comparing them using various methods including analytics that pretty much shuts down the argument. It's Jordan and it's not close. Not sure if it was posted in this thread yet but I think it might've been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJClown Posted March 30, 2022 Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 A Lakers team that has LBJ, Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook, are 2 losses away from having a worse record than MJ's last two miserable teams Let that sink in for a moment. P.S. Michael Jordan's final two seasons with the Washington Wizards: 2001-02: 37-45 Record (w/ Rip Hamilton and Chris Whitney) 2002-03: 37-45 Record (w/ Jerry Stackhouse and Larry Hughes) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJClown Posted April 4, 2022 Report Share Posted April 4, 2022 The fact that a team that is 31-47, 16 games under .500, and 31 games back of 1st place...still technically has "a chance" to get into the playoffs with 4 games left...is an absolute joke. This season will stand as a huge blemish on LBJ's career, up there with his finals defeat at the hands up Dirk. There's no combating that at this point. I'll say it again: MJ on his final farewell tour team in 2002. A team where the two best players aside from a retiring MJ was Jerry Stackhouse (21.5 PPG) and Larry freaking Hughes (12.8 PPG).... That team finished with a better record (37-45) than this Lakers team...meaning even if the Lakers go 4-0 to finish the season...they'd still finish 2 games behind MJ's horrible Wizards team in what was a farewell tour. Just let that sink in for a few minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number9 Posted June 29, 2022 Report Share Posted June 29, 2022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 To me, it's impossible to talk about or deal with NBA discourse online. Most people participating it are casual basketball fans at best--which is fine. The problem is that the obsession with comparison and rankings has turned all of these conversations into pure misery that is all in service of dick riding Michael Jordan. The GOAT conversation is fucking stupid. It fuels a hatred of LeBron that is overblown and makes it hard to appreciate what LeBron brings to the table. So you think Jordan is better. Cool. Who fucking cares? Most people agree with you. Bring out the cherry picked logic. What if instead of having this conversation non-stop, we stopped to appreciate an absolutely stacked league with more stars and high level competition at one time than we've ever seen, where possibly the most electric player in the NBA plays in the state of Tennessee and LeBron is doing it at an incredible level. LeBron has lived up to hype in a way that no athlete or even person for that matter has ever achieved. He was promoted as the next Jordan in high school and he fucking delivered, and he did so where his worse scandal was an ill advised press conference. You know what else? As an elite star, he delivered a title to 3 different cities, every team he's played for thus far. Who else in any sport has achieved this? He came back to Cleveland and got it done against the Warriors, one of the greatest teams of all time. And yet, the amount of hate I hear for the guy is constant and somehow all the conversations end up back to Jordan. I wish people that couldn't talk about basketball without talking about Jordan would go watch the Last Dance or youtube highlights and leave the rest of us in peace. Some of y'all honestly are going to live through one of the greatest careers of all time and instead of appreciating history will just be salty pricks living in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 On 2/11/2023 at 6:26 PM, Bink said: Some of y'all honestly are going to live through one of the greatest careers of all time and instead of appreciating history will just be salty pricks living in the past. 99% of LeBron's career is also in the past. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 On 2/11/2023 at 6:26 PM, Bink said: And yet, the amount of hate I hear for the guy is constant and somehow all the conversations end up back to Jordan. That is because right before all the conversations turn there is always at least a few LeBron simps who have to toss in the "goat" tag. It is ridiculous and shouldn't be left unchallenged. Otherwise idiots will go on thinking they are righter than rain. I have never claimed to be a Jordan fan. I rooted against that fucker more than I ever rooted for him. The 93 Finals and his return from his first retirement were the only times I ever actually remember rooting for him. I hated the 95-96 Bulls team with a red hot passion and wanted them to lose so fucking bad I could taste it. I was sure Shaq and the Magic would put a stop to their hype. Maybe they could have if they'd been run by competent management. I also rooted for the Jazz both years they faced the Bulls. There were times when I fucking hated Jordan because of the idea that he was unstoppable. And I kept right on hating him because he kept right on proving that he was unstoppable. But you have to give the best their due at some point. LeBron has scored the most points of any player in NBA history and that record will likely stand for at least a couple of decades, if not longer. But Kareem held that record for over 30 years and no one was calling him the greatest player of all time except for die hard Lakers fans or die hard Kareem stans. Had Jordan played a solid 20 years with no retirements and maintained a healthy average he would have scored at least 40k points, if not more. His career average as it is, extrapolated over a 20 year career, would have put him at 45k. And that is not even counting the extra championships, MVP awards, and DPOY awards he no doubt would have won in the extra seasons. So while I am well aware of the rarity that LeBron's scoring record is, and while I appreciate that he is one of the all-time greats, any time I see someone calling him the goat I feel honor bound to call the dumb ass out on it. It's just the right thing to do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2023 Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 4 hours ago, NashvilleNinja said: That is because right before all the conversations turn there is always at least a few LeBron simps who have to toss in the "goat" tag. It is ridiculous and shouldn't be left unchallenged. Otherwise idiots will go on thinking they are righter than rain. I have never claimed to be a Jordan fan. I rooted against that fucker more than I ever rooted for him. The 93 Finals and his return from his first retirement were the only times I ever actually remember rooting for him. I hated the 95-96 Bulls team with a red hot passion and wanted them to lose so fucking bad I could taste it. I was sure Shaq and the Magic would put a stop to their hype. Maybe they could have if they'd been run by competent management. I also rooted for the Jazz both years they faced the Bulls. There were times when I fucking hated Jordan because of the idea that he was unstoppable. And I kept right on hating him because he kept right on proving that he was unstoppable. But you have to give the best their due at some point. LeBron has scored the most points of any player in NBA history and that record will likely stand for at least a couple of decades, if not longer. But Kareem held that record for over 30 years and no one was calling him the greatest player of all time except for die hard Lakers fans or die hard Kareem stans. Had Jordan played a solid 20 years with no retirements and maintained a healthy average he would have scored at least 40k points, if not more. His career average as it is, extrapolated over a 20 year career, would have put him at 45k. And that is not even counting the extra championships, MVP awards, and DPOY awards he no doubt would have won in the extra seasons. So while I am well aware of the rarity that LeBron's scoring record is, and while I appreciate that he is one of the all-time greats, any time I see someone calling him the goat I feel honor bound to call the dumb ass out on it. It's just the right thing to do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Stop saying had Jordan done X, Y, or Z. He didn't. Imagine the reaction to LeBron in today's media if he went to play baseball or football and was dog shit at it. My point is the whole GOAT conversation is fucking stupid and subjective. Of course some people watching LeBron play are going to call him the GOAT--it's a normal reaction to actually watching and seeing someone play in real time, in your life time. But this conversation is not an exception, and is not only started by LeBron fans. The reality is no one is "right" in this conversation. It's pointless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abenjami Posted February 14, 2023 Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 On 2/11/2023 at 4:26 PM, Bink said: LeBron has lived up to hype in a way that no athlete or even person for that matter has ever achieved. He was promoted as the next Jordan in high school and he fucking delivered, and he did so where his worse scandal was an ill advised press conference. You know what else? As an elite star, he delivered a title to 3 different cities, every team he's played for thus far. Who else in any sport has achieved this? He came back to Cleveland and got it done against the Warriors, one of the greatest teams of all time. These 2 things are what I always point out about Lebron and why I respect what he has accomplished. The amount of pressure and expectations put on him as a high school kid were unprecedented and probably still unmatched to date some 20 years later. But what is really comical is listening to people try to dog him. Literally the worst thing they can muster is to claim "he's not as good as Jordan". How comical is that? That's like someone saying well that Abe Lincoln guy, he ended slavery and all but he wasn't as good as George Washington! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted February 14, 2023 Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Bink said: The reality is no one is "right" in this conversation. It's pointless. There might not be anyone right, but you're definitely wrong. 1 hour ago, abenjami said: How comical is that? That's like someone saying well that Abe Lincoln guy, he ended slavery and all but he wasn't as good as George Washington! Well, he wasn't. He got got in a damn theater. How good could he have been? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 On 2/14/2023 at 12:42 AM, NashvilleNinja said: There might not be anyone right, but you're definitely wrong. Well, he wasn't. He got got in a damn theater. How good could he have been? I prefer my presidents who weren't assassinated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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