Legaltitan Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Cyrus said: I am however tired of the meaningless statistical argument. Prepared to be tired a lot on this board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legaltitan Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Just now, Jamalisms said: Give me a fucking break, Legal. Was I replying to that post or was I trying to determine specifically how Gabbert's numbers were relevant and/or average? 580 is a lot of pass attempts. 27.8 per game are not. It's reasonable to ask why 27.8 was cited and what the point was. well carry on then. To me his point was obvious in citing Gabbert. I suspect you know that as well, which is why we have had this diversion into the weeds, but I don't really give a shit. Gabbert threw almost 30 times a game, and was a rookie QB and one of the worst busts at QB in recent memory. Mularky isn't afraid to throw, apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Cyrus said: Yes, on a team basis this is near last, when sorting by individual quarterbacks it's not. So yes, a 448 P/A on a team basis would be near last over a multi-year basis. I get the discrepancy. There's not really a discrepancy. 3 hours ago, Jamalisms said: 27.8 passes over 16 games is 444.8 pass attempts. That would have put him at 24th most pass attempts in 2012, including behind multiple people who didn't start 16 games. It's not many pass attempts. And they were down all game all year. But if you perceive clarifying questions as an argument, especially when they're specifically noted as honest questions, then I can understand being tired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Jamal taking damage from all sides... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 16 minutes ago, Legaltitan said: Gabbert threw almost 30 times a game, and was a rookie QB and one of the worst busts at QB in recent memory. Mularky isn't afraid to throw, apparently. Gabbert threw almost 28 times per game, on a losing team, which was about as low as anybody gets. If you use the bottom of a population to prove the absence of the bottom of the population, you've done something wrong. Objecting to my asking for a clarification on this is faux outrage. You're prone to that lately. Which is pathetic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superhorn Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 34 minutes ago, NewsToTom said: More like, our coach would if he could. You mean because he likes to mix in RPO which - philosophically - resembles the triple option? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted August 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 24 minutes ago, Jamalisms said: Gabbert threw almost 28 times per game, on a losing team, which was about as low as anybody gets. If you use the bottom of a population to prove the absence of the bottom of the population, you've done something wrong. Objecting to my asking for a clarification on this is faux outrage. You're prone to that lately. Which is pathetic. 28 pass attempts a game isn't a lot when you are 2-14 and getting your ass kicked every week. I find it odd that someone of Cyrus's intellect would hang his hat on a stat without any context. Go back and look at Mularkey's offenses dating back to his Steelers days. He's historically run the ball more than the average OC which is all any of us are saying. The group think around here is getting worse by the day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 He ran more with the likes of Stewart, Maddox, and Gabbert. He threw more often with Ryan and Henne. Why is this difficult to understand the reasoning in those numbers? The first two were still in an age where 4k was an excellent season. They weren't world beaters as QBs, they both had great defenses and run games to rely on, and therefore they were asked to be game managers. The third was an awful, awful QB his rookie year. He seriously looked like a deer in the headlights, and Mularkey tried to hide him...when he couldn't he inserted Henne and threw it 40 times a game. He only ran a heavy based running attack with Ryan for one year, his rookie year. How is any of this adding up to some archaic, overwhelming run pass ratio? Why is that two of the top six QBs are on run oriented teams, both who have been to the Super Bowl in the past three years? In my eyes, we are attempting to build a team meant for cold weather, playoff football, in the mold of Seattle, Carolina, and the Giants. If anyone disagrees this is the best path forward then by all means lay out the reasoning, but to disregard the fact our coach has preached balance doesn't make much sense. He's ran balanced attacks at every stop, but when he had a good QB (Ryan) he passed more except his rookie year, and when it was called for and not blatant suicide (Henne) he did the same. Cyrus' point is a very easy one without any need for further conversation: Gabbert threw the ball right around 30 times a game. Does anyone honestly believe he will throw less with a stud like MM? If they do it is because of their own preconceived bias and is of little merit when looking at his other stops in the contexts of the QBs running his offense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Just now, oldschool said: 28 pass attempts a game isn't a lot when you are 2-14 and getting your ass kicked every week. I find it odd that someone of Cyrus's intellect would hang his hat on a stat without any context. Go back and look at Mularkey's offenses dating back to his Steelers days. He's historically run the ball more than the average OC which is all any of us are saying. The group think around here is getting worse by the day. The Falcons were 7th, 8th and 4th in pass attempts with Mularkey as OC from 2009-2011. Jacksonville was 11th in 2012. Miami was 4th in pass attempts in 2006 with Mularkey as OC. You have to go back to 2005/2004 before you see a real drop with an aging Bledsoe and then Holcomb/JP Losman. Also, my mistake on Gabbert's average. He was injured in one game and only had two attempts. He averaged 30.7 P/A Avg at Jacksonville. (32.5 P/A if you discount a half he didn't play). He had three games with under 25 attempts. That was a 7-27 Loss to Houston (19 Attempts), a 22-17 Win at Indy (21 Attempts) and a 23-26 OT loss at Oakland. (12 Attempts - didn't start the game). So in sum, history doesn't bear out some type of all-run team. When Mularkey has had a capable quarterback, they threw the ball. Plus, Gabbert threw the ball as much as he should have, if not more. The point? Stop being anxious about Mariota throwing the ball enough. Quality quarterbacks got an opportunity to throw the ball much more than average and the bad ones got as much or more opportunities to throw than they probably should have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted August 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 9 minutes ago, Cyrus said: The Falcons were 7th, 8th and 4th in pass attempts with Mularkey as OC from 2009-2011. Jacksonville was 11th in 2012. Miami was 4th in pass attempts in 2006 with Mularkey as OC. You have to go back to 2005/2004 before you see a real drop with an aging Bledsoe and then Holcomb/JP Losman. Also, my mistake on Gabbert's average. He was injured in one game and only had two attempts. He averaged 30.7 P/A Avg at Jacksonville. (32.5 P/A if you discount a half he didn't play). He had three games with under 25 attempts. That was a 7-27 Loss to Houston (19 Attempts), a 22-17 Win at Indy (21 Attempts) and a 23-26 OT loss at Oakland. (12 Attempts - didn't start the game). So in sum, history doesn't bear out some type of all-run team. When Mularkey has had a capable quarterback, they threw the ball. Plus, Gabbert threw the ball as much as he should have, if not more. The point? Stop being anxious about Mariota throwing the ball enough. Quality quarterbacks got an opportunity to throw the ball much more than average and the bad ones got as much or more opportunities to throw than they probably should have. Again with the all run crap. No one is saying that. Why are you looking at pass attempts instead of run pass ratio which is more important in my opinion. Balance is fine. Running 2TE sets all the time and expecting Mariota to throw deep is the problem. He's not built for that kind of offense. Ryan and Bledsoe are though. Thats all anyone is saying. If the team comes out and runs a lot of 3x1 sets in passing situations your point will be made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: Cyrus' point is a very easy one without any need for further conversation: Gabbert threw the ball right around 30 times a game. Does anyone honestly believe he will throw less with a stud like MM? If they do it is because of their own preconceived bias and is of little merit when looking at his other stops in the contexts of the QBs running his offense. Nobody throws less. Nobody thinks he'll throw less. Except maybe Florio. Which was the point of the OP - that Florio's emphasis is at odds with local media. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, Cyrus said: The Falcons were 7th, 8th and 4th in pass attempts with Mularkey as OC from 2009-2011. Jacksonville was 11th in 2012. Miami was 4th in pass attempts in 2006 with Mularkey as OC. You have to go back to 2005/2004 before you see a real drop with an aging Bledsoe and then Holcomb/JP Losman. Also, my mistake on Gabbert's average. He was injured in one game and only had two attempts. He averaged 30.7 P/A Avg at Jacksonville. (32.5 P/A if you discount a half he didn't play). He had three games with under 25 attempts. That was a 7-27 Loss to Houston (19 Attempts), a 22-17 Win at Indy (21 Attempts) and a 23-26 OT loss at Oakland. (12 Attempts - didn't start the game). So in sum, history doesn't bear out some type of all-run team. When Mularkey has had a capable quarterback, they threw the ball. Plus, Gabbert threw the ball as much as he should have, if not more. The point? Stop being anxious about Mariota throwing the ball enough. Quality quarterbacks got an opportunity to throw the ball much more than average and the bad ones got as much or more opportunities to throw than they probably should have. You forgot to adjust for pi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Jamalisms said: Exactly. Very different statements. Yes, he has commented on an all-run focus similar to that Florio suggested when he said that the passing game will be an afterthought. Mularkey talks of balance. Florio is suggesting otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted August 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Just now, Jamalisms said: Nobody throws less. Nobody thinks he'll throw less. Except maybe Florio. Which was the point of the OP - that Florio's emphasis is at odds with local media. ding ding ding. Thats is exactly what sparked the whole thread. Either Florio is lying or he completely misinterpreted what Mularkey said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 1 minute ago, oldschool said: Why are you looking at pass attempts instead of run pass ratio which is more important in my opinion. I tried that in a thread once. It was generally rejected. I don't recall why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.