Fight to the death: Knife vs bat who wins?

[OILERMAN]

31 minutes ago, patsplat said:

I agree that it's close.  It may be a style difference.  Short guys are gonna favor getting inside, tall guys will favor the reach game.

Longer arms with longer reach = slower recovery from swings, short arms are better with bat imo

[pat]

12 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

Longer arms with longer reach = slower recovery from swings, short arms are better with bat imo

Footwork is what matters, not the arms.

[pat]

50% of winning a one on one fight is from the waist down.  The other half is rage.

[Jamalisms]

2 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

What made you change your mind?

I couldn't recall which I preferred previously, but I decided it was about striking power and reach (the boxer) versus get inside that reach and fuck 'em up (the wrestler). And wrestlers generally win those matchups. A boxer might get the chance power blow to end it, but not often.

It's very hard to actually strike accurately and with power while also maintaining distance. Much harder with a bat than as a boxer and it's already hard for boxers against wrestlers. Once the knife fighter is inside the reach, a bat is completely useless. It's a fallacy to say you'd keep the knife fighter at bay while swinging and doing damage. You have to set to swing with any real force and once you set I'm coming inside.

[wiscotitansfan]

51 minutes ago, patsplat said:

Footwork is what matters, not the arms.

The only thing that matters is if the bat can land the "kill-shot", if not that second blow won't have enough force to even stop someone from coming in and landing a stab. If you are worried about footwork it's already game over... if your train of thought after a miss is I need to back up and reposition myself and have better footwork defensively the knife-wielder is already within arms reach.

The only way "footwork" matters is if you don't take a kill shot with the bat in the first place and can get re situated instantly, which takes away the only way possible the bat can win in a fight to the death.

[abenjami]

I see we are now back to the fallacies of being able to simply block the bat or just absorb a hit from it.

[wiscotitansfan]

Yes, because ANY hit from a bat can completely immobilize someone. You still need a very powerful hit to win or completely stun someone in a fight to the death. Unless I am getting hit in the head from a half shot, If my only goal is to get as close as possible as quickly as possible after a missed homerun swing it's not inconceivable to think that yes, you can still get touched by the bat and just take it.

Edit: If it was you that said earlier, take a shot at 5% to the shin and see how much it hurts. You know damn well if you're in a fight to the death it would still take a real swing to have any real impact

[titanruss]

2 hours ago, patsplat said:

The video of evidence of real fights favors the bat though.  More research is needed.

because most people dont intend to kill. the bad is a great defensive weapon in that scenario. a dude robbing a store just wants to be threatening. he doesnt want to end a life. e wants to look like the aggressor but really isnt. 

same with the car video... dude is sitting in his car, this takes away any advantage for the knife. you cant get close enough to stab... literally like poking a tiger in a cage with a stick. 

[titanruss]

1 hour ago, patsplat said:

Footwork is what matters, not the arms.

taller = slower footwork. just check out all the henry talk

[abenjami]

15 minutes ago, wiscotitansfan said:

Yes, because ANY hit from a bat can completely immobilize someone. You still need a very powerful hit to win or completely stun someone in a fight to the death. Unless I am getting hit in the head from a half shot, If my only goal is to get as close as possible as quickly as possible after a missed homerun swing it's not inconceivable to think that yes, you can still get touched by the bat and just take it.

Edit: If it was you that said earlier, take a shot at 5% to the shin and see how much it hurts. You know damn well if you're in a fight to the death it would still take a real swing to have any real impact

I think you watch too much TV and movies.  Adrenaline only goes so far.  If you get hit with any half way decent shot of the bat, it's going to affect your ability to come at the other person with the knife.

Also, how is a "fight to the death" different than any regular fight?  Have you ever been in a real fight that was not a fight to the death?  I have not.  Every fight I have been involved in was a fight to the death.  The only reason someone didn't die is because (1) the fight was broken up or (2) the other guy was injured on the ground and unable to get back up.

[wiscotitansfan]

Adrenaline can only go so far but in middle school football of all things I have personally seen a friend finish a game after he broke a bone in the 1st qtr. Guess which bone that was, his fucking femur.

Unless you get physically crippled and can't hold/swing a knife (which I don't think would happen from a partial shot) or get knocked out from a skull knocker I think you are the one who is severly over or underestimating for that matter.

If you really have to ask why a fight to the death would be any different you are delusional, sure you aren't going to take it less easy but there are countless examples of "super human" strength when it truly is a matter of life and death.

[abenjami]

The point is you don't have to get physically crippled to the point where you can't hold or swing the knife.  If you have a broken arm, it's going to affect your ability to come at the other guy with your unbroken arm.  Same thing if you take a shot to the leg or the rib cage.  You might still be able to fight in some regard but you aren't close to 100% and the guy with the bat now has a sizable advantage going forward.

I'm not delusional at all.  The last fight I was involved in ended with 2 guys lying on the ground.  Whatever "super human" strength they had disappeared rather quickly once they took a couple of shots.  Heck, the first guy went down with one good punch and never got back up.  He curled up into a ball and begged not to be hit again.

[wiscotitansfan]

8 minutes ago, abenjami said:

The point is you don't have to get physically crippled to the point where you can't hold or swing the knife.  If you have a broken arm, it's going to affect your ability to come at the other guy with your unbroken arm.  Same thing if you take a shot to the leg or the rib cage.  You might still be able to fight in some regard but you aren't close to 100% and the guy with the bat now has a sizable advantage going forward.

I'm not delusional at all.  The last fight I was involved in ended with 2 guys lying on the ground.  Whatever "super human" strength they had disappeared rather quickly once they took a couple of shots.  Heck, the first guy went down with one good punch and never got back up.  He curled up into a ball and begged not to be hit again.

And if weapons were involved do you think that would have been the case of him just laying there begging? Just proved that BS argument that "every fight is a fight to the death"

And the whole point of this is obviously the bat has the initial advantage, the knife is much more fatal with any literal swing and misses. I was just stating that this whole any hit from a bat would cripple someone which I don't think is anywhere near the case at all. We are debating completely different points of view.

[abenjami]

5 minutes ago, wiscotitansfan said:

And if weapons were involved do you think that would have been the case of him just laying there begging? Just proved that BS argument that "every fight is a fight to the death"

And the whole point of this is obviously the bat has the initial advantage, the knife is much more fatal with any literal swing and misses. I was just stating that this whole any hit from a bat would cripple someone which I don't think is anywhere near the case at all. We are debating completely different points of view.

Yes, it would have been the same result.  He got knocked clean to the face and crumbled to the ground.  He was physically unable to do anything else.  If the person who hit him wanted to end his life, it would have happened before he even had the chance to beg for mercy.

I agree the knife is the more fatal weapon if there is one good connection made but I don't think there is going to be much swinging and missing with the bat.  Again, i'm not saying "any" hit with the bat will cripple the guy with the knife, but lots of them will and even a hit that doesn't cripple is going to cause the guy with the knife some problems.

[wiscotitansfan]

I for sure agree with literally everything of that, I'm sure every knife advocate does too. Still imo literally all depends on that first bat swing because I don't think there's enough time to recover and take a crippling swing instantly after in recovery mode. 

I'd personally rather get swung at with an out of the park followed by attack (or get knocked the fuck out) compared to go against someone with a knife.... I'd actually just lung at someones legs where I don't think it'd be a knock out shot anyway.