It all starts at the top

[amyinsparta]

Don't most business owners surround themselves with "yes people"  ?

[Righteous]

On 3/11/2015, 11:17:04, Legaltitan said:

I don't understand the "pure rebuild" and "three year plan" excuse anyway.

 

That kind of thinking is 5-10 year old thinking.

 

Teams don't re-build anymore.  They re-load.  When there is a re-build there may be a one year sort of down period, but then they are back strong again.

 

How long have we been re-building now?  You can look at that several ways.  Some would argue we have been trying to "re-build" now for almost a fucking decade.  At a minimum we have been in re-buld mode since we cast off Fisher.  Or maybe you want to start with when we dumped Munch.  So then we are in year two of the re-build mode, with the state of the roster going backwards not forwards.  And now I hear about this "three year plan."  Which three year are we talking about?  Are we in year 1 of the three year plan?  If so that is unacceptable.  Are we in year 2 of the the three-year plan?  If so, I can tell you it looks like the three-year plan is going to fail spectacularly.

You can't blame Jon Robinson for the shit team he has been given or for the failures of Ruston Webster.  And yes, he must build this team as if it is from day one and it will take time.  He is lucky to have a QB and building a team is easy when the QB is in place.  Build the trenches, OL and DL and build your defense strong up the middle.  He would be stupid to come in and try to build a foundation on Webster's players.  There are 3 players on this team worth keeping and I don't care how frustrated you are about it, it won't change the process.  Robinson is saying the correct things and I will give him a chance to turn this team around.  I rather have a team that competes for a championship yearly than the scraps we've had lately because someone thought this teams fortunes could be turn around by 2 or 3 pieces.  That's ridiculous!

[SleepingTitan]

1 hour ago, Legaltitan said:

Shitty owners leads to shitty leadership.  Shitty leadership hires shitty HC.  Shitty HC attracts nothing but shitty assistants.

At least we appear to have made a decent GM hire.  Time will tell.  If he can draft well we may have a chance despite ourselves.  He being a total yes man lickspittle makes me nervous.

We ended up with hopefully a great QB, which was a function of our being so terrible.  But if we surround him with shitty coaching and talent and a revolving door, well it will  end predictably.

This is how bad teams stay bad.  We are left hoping the stars align one season while our franchise QB is still healthy enough to play.  Meanwhile, the Steelers, Broncos, Patriots, Packers, Seahawks continue to be there in the thick of things year after year.  Panthers are quietly becoming a class A organization also.  They were in a Super Bowl not too many years ago, and may be headed back there again.

We are down with the Browns, Lions, Jags as one of the worst franchises in the league,.

I will say they do have commonality & synergy, so-to-speak. They're all (except for Jrob) failures. They want to simplify things & play tough. Get back to the basics. I can't find fault in that approach for a team that obviously needs that simplification and foundation. We are so off the mark compared to some things. Perhaps our simplified approach will reduce penalties and be a perfect answer to the complicated coverages designed to stop complicated passing attacks? Maybe this synergy will create a charisma in the building that we've been lacking, getting us over that proverbial hump to win the close games?

Ugh. I hope so. If that's our approach, we need to focus on the trenches & running game in the draft. We need to beef up our defense and convert to a 4-3. All that change will take time. 

[SleepingTitan]

In sales, we have a phrase, "Stay Stupid," and I must say, our team is excelling. 

[TF_Titan]

I'm not sure what to think at this point. I agree we have a leadership issue, but it's hard to nail down exactly what's going on since AAS is pretty much invisible. Most "bad ownership" situations stem from owners who think they can run their NFL franchise like their fantasy football team (Jones, Snyder, Haslam, etc.) I don't think that's AAS. Her problem may be that she actually recognizes she knows nothing about running an NFL franchise and so has entrusted Underwood to act on her behalf.

I actually think (in spite of the clear public perception they're pushing) that Underwood is really the guy pulling the strings. He seems to be trying just a little too hard to emphasize that Amy is making all these decisions to the point where it seems fishy. Her complete absence from the owners meeting (not to mention all Titans press conferences) supports the idea that she's not as engaged as an owner as she's being portrayed. Normally this is the exact type of owner you want...one that lets the football guys run the team. The problem IMO is that she's relying too much on an old, loyal family friend to run the team instead of bringing in someone from the outside with real football experience. I know Underwood has worked with the Titans for a long time, but almost exclusively in non-football related functions. I'm not convinced he's the guy that needs to be given the keys, and I doubt Amy would be brave enough to give up her security blanket (Underwood) and turn the reins over to someone she doesn't know well.

I think I like the Robinson hire and I don't think Mularkey is the end of the world, but at the same time if it doesn't work I'm not confident Amy (read: Underwood) would have a clue where to go next.

[big2033]

On 3/11/2015, 10:17:22, Legaltitan said:

I think I've created this exact same topic at least once before, and have ben preaching this for years.

 

We are a dysfunctional organization, and it starts at the top.

 

Before we had "crazy ol' Bud" to blame.  Now we've got a new owner.  While things seem to be less chaotic, the product is actually digressing.

 

Owner > GM > head coach > QB.  You can't have a good team unless all four of those elements are at or near the top of their game, and all on the same page philosophically.  And it starts with the owner.  The owner either controls the hiring of these people or controls the people that hire these people. 

 

Maybe our ownership situation has improved (hard o see how it could have gotten worse) but then again Bud at least had a passion for the game and winning. 

 

Winning franchises require excellence in everything.  Excellence in ownership first, which I do not believe that we have.  Looking at the state of our facilities, the decisions that have been made, and the general unimpressive demeanor of Mr. Smith, color me extremely skeptical.  But I'm willing to give the guy a chance.

 

His first chance to make a real, meaningful impact for the better on this franchise was after last season's disaster when he had every reason in the world to fire Webster.  He did not. 

Yawn ... you mean for the years the Cardinals were absolute shit they suddenly got a better owner? Nope, same guy. Go look at his history of ownership.

It's pretty much luck and firing people until you finally find the right mix to run your team. That's how the NFL works. 

[socaltitan]

Just now, big2033 said:

Yawn ... you mean for the years the Cardinals were absolute shit they suddenly got a better owner? Nope, same guy. Go look at his history of ownership.

It's pretty much luck and firing people until you finally find the right mix to run your team. That's how the NFL works. 

Bill Polian and Peyton Manning managed to make it work for years with looney Irsay as the owner

[BudsOilers]

This structure works if the organization hires the right people to run the football side of things.  Of course, that applies in most businesses. 

Paul Allen is a great absentee owner, letting his team CEO run the business side of things and his coach and GM run the football side of it.  He had the same structure before Carroll and Schneider were hired in 2010.  Problem was it was Tim Ruskell (his sidekick Ruston was his VP of Player Personnel) picking the players and Holmgren (who hated Ruskell BTW) and then Mora Jr. as the HC in 2009.  Organizational structure wasn't the issue.  Hiring the right people with an aligned vision, plan, and ability to execute it is.

The Titans had this in 1998 - 2003 with Diamond, Reese, and Fisher.  It was a disaster with Reinfeldt, Webster, and Munchak and then Webster and Whisenhunt.

 

 

[Legaltitan]

13 minutes ago, big2033 said:

Yawn ... you mean for the years the Cardinals were absolute shit they suddenly got a better owner? Nope, same guy. Go look at his history of ownership.

It's pretty much luck and firing people until you finally find the right mix to run your team. That's how the NFL works. 

Yep it's all luck.

Steelers - great year in year out.

It's been a few years, but how many years were the 49ers in the thick of things?  Guess that was all luck.

The Packers have been great for decades.  down years here and there, but a great franchise.

Ravens were down this year but they have been great since they went to Baltimore. 

The Giants, through different coaches and players, are usually in the thick of things. 

The Cowboys, before Jerry Jones decided he knew everything, went on an incredible run of dominance.  But hey, look what happens when the owner starts showing his ass and interfering with football people and making boneheaded decisions?

Seems like the Texans get it - their logo is gay and I hate them but they are run as a much more class organization than we are.  We are certainly looking up at them.

Jags new owner seems to get it and they seem to be on the rise - what will we think when that god forsaken shit hole of a city passes us by?

The Patriots - man they have to be the luckiest team alive! 

Raiders were bad for years when senile Al Davis was in charge - just bad luck I guess!

Meanwhile we have the NFL threatening to intercede things are so bad here.  And oh by the way we are picking at the top of the draft for the second year in a row.  Just bad ol dumb luck I guess.

Yeah, for teams like us it does seem to be "luck."  Shitty teams can get lucky and go on a run.  Even a blind nut finds a squirrel.  I'd rather not have to rely on luck, and be set up for success year in and year out.

[Titans279]

The funny thing about Paul Allen is that he's much more involved in his basketball franchise because he thinks he knows basketball more. He leaves football to the football people and it's been much more successful...

[BudsOilers]

It's definitely not luck - the ability to pick the right people is a skill.  That doesn't mean that even the best don't make mistakes.  At the end of the day, regardless of the process, the decision maker's ability to make the right calls on people is huge.

Personally, I wish that the effort they put into the GM search (where they obviously had an open mind) would have been put into the HC search as it's pretty clear that it was Mularkey's job to lose.  The franchise for as long as I have followed it tends to do the coaching searches that way - other than Whisenhunt every coach I remember them hiring was internal or with local connections.

[big2033]

5 hours ago, Legaltitan said:

Yep it's all luck.

Steelers - great year in year out.

It's been a few years, but how many years were the 49ers in the thick of things?  Guess that was all luck.

The Packers have been great for decades.  down years here and there, but a great franchise.

Ravens were down this year but they have been great since they went to Baltimore. 

The Giants, through different coaches and players, are usually in the thick of things. 

The Cowboys, before Jerry Jones decided he knew everything, went on an incredible run of dominance.  But hey, look what happens when the owner starts showing his ass and interfering with football people and making boneheaded decisions?

Seems like the Texans get it - their logo is gay and I hate them but they are run as a much more class organization than we are.  We are certainly looking up at them.

Jags new owner seems to get it and they seem to be on the rise - what will we think when that god forsaken shit hole of a city passes us by?

The Patriots - man they have to be the luckiest team alive! 

Raiders were bad for years when senile Al Davis was in charge - just bad luck I guess!

Meanwhile we have the NFL threatening to intercede things are so bad here.  And oh by the way we are picking at the top of the draft for the second year in a row.  Just bad ol dumb luck I guess.

Yeah, for teams like us it does seem to be "luck."  Shitty teams can get lucky and go on a run.  Even a blind nut finds a squirrel.  I'd rather not have to rely on luck, and be set up for success year in and year out.

Go back and check how long the Patriots sucked before Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady came around ... they were a laughing stock.

Packers ... cmon ... they've been around before the NFL.

The Jags? What?

The Texans? They've never even been to a Super Bowl ... 

Raiders? They were a laughing stock with Al Davis ... and also have championships. I'm gonna stop there because the fact you're name dropping Jerry Jones and Al Davis as negatives tells me you're literally looking at only the present. The NFL has existed longer than 15 years ... you know that right?

[CMJ]

Jacksonville has to be stoked.

Bortles is legit and he has the Allens to boot. 

[Remember The Titantic]

6 hours ago, socaltitan said:

Bill Polian and Peyton Manning managed to make it work for years with looney Irsay as the owner

With those two gone now, the Colts are starting to show signs of decay.

[chef]

9 hours ago, BudAdams said:

This structure works if the organization hires the right people to run the football side of things.  Of course, that applies in most businesses.

Paul Allen is a great absentee owner, letting his team CEO run the business side of things and his coach and GM run the football side of it.  He had the same structure before Carroll and Schneider were hired in 2010.  Problem was it was Tim Ruskell (his sidekick Ruston was his VP of Player Personnel) picking the players and Holmgren (who hated Ruskell BTW) and then Mora Jr. as the HC in 2009.  Organizational structure wasn't the issue.  Hiring the right people with an aligned vision, plan, and ability to execute it is.

The Titans had this in 1998 - 2003 with Diamond, Reese, and Fisher.  It was a disaster with Reinfeldt, Webster, and Munchak and then Webster and Whisenhunt.

 

 

You're implying SEA was crap before Carroll and Co., when in fact they mostly dominated a weak NFC West and would have had a ring were it not for the most BS officiating in SB history (so the Rooney's could get another).

 

Holmgren was not a bad coach. Woulda/shoulda been the 1st coach in NFL history to win a ring with 2 different teams.  GREAT OL on that team, with solid at best QB/RB/WRs.

 

Titans279 is spot on about Mr. Allen.  Public knowledge that he really only bought the Seahawks from the Nordstroms to keep them in Seattle.  Really classy move to bring John (Nordstrom) on the podium when they got their ring.  Mr. Allen (and Mr. Nordstrom too) is a solid guy, albeit quirky.  At least when in Hawaii.