PODCAST Episode 58 - A Charged Debate

[cenj]

I do find it disturbing that Jamal, Oman, Oldschool, and myself are all on the same page regarding Locker. There wasn't this much non-partisanship over Lenwhale.

 

Prag, Reo, and CTF are leading the "defend Locker" brigade. If Cyrus wasn't holding on to so much optimism, I'd probably drink myself into belligerence like Jamal apparently did.

[reo]

Prag, Reo, and CTF are leading the "defend Locker" brigade.

 

Who's defending Locker?

[Guest]

Jamal just massacred Jonboy. Holy shit.

[Pragidealist]

Jamal just massacred Jonboy. Holy shit.

 

I disagree. Jonboy more than held his own. Jamal was just a lot angrier. 

[Guest]

I disagree. Jonboy more than held his own. Jamal was just a lot angrier.

I'm sorry but that is false. Jonboy's "locker produced 14 points" argument was ridiculous.

[Jamalisms]

A better example is that I am on one side of a door with someone. There is smoke coming out from under the door and the handle is very hot.

 

I turn to the other person and say "HOLY CRAP THAT ROOM IS ON FIRE!"

 

They turn to me and say "That's nonsense. What's really happening is that something on the other side of the door is burning inside that room."

 

I agree that this distinction is probably true but state that it's really not a meaningful difference but they insist that I start guessing whether or not it's the bed or the dresser that's burning because if it's the bed then we really have a mattress fire but if it's the dresser then it's more just wood burning. They then sit down and start hypothesizing whether or not the fire has been going on for awhile and how much water it might take to put out a fire of each type... and in the end we both end up dying of smoke inhalation.

[Pragidealist]

I'm sorry but that is false. Jonboy's "locker produced 14 points" argument was ridiculous.

 

Umm it was true.  Jamal was trying to say he didn't produce at all. He did. He drove the field twice and scored two nice tds.  He produced.  It just wasn't enough.  It was the whole argument about whether there were positives from this game or not. There were positives. There were just also a lot of negatives. 

[Pragidealist]

A better example is that I am on one side of a door with someone. There is smoke coming out from under the door and the handle is very hot.

 

I turn to the other person and say "HOLY CRAP THAT ROOM IS ON FIRE!"

 

They turn to me and say "That's nonsense. What's really happening is that something on the other side of the door is burning inside that room."

 

I agree that this distinction is probably true but state that it's really not a meaningful difference but they insist that I start guessing whether or not it's the bed or the dresser that's burning because if it's the bed then we really have a mattress fire but if it's the dresser then it's more just wood burning. They then sit down and start hypothesizing whether or not the fire has been going on for awhile and how much water it might take to put out a fire of each type... and in the end we both end up dying of smoke inhalation.

 

And this is why I get so frustrated because you just don't get what I am saying.  You're completely clueless.   The difference has relevance.  You just can't see it. 

[cenj]

This is one of those fundamental disagreements in how posters see things. I listened to that section (not the whole podcast), and I'm with Oldschool (and Jamal).

 

We can argue semantics and try and define "what is producing?" But, for some of us, doing something is not producing, not at this level and in today's passing game. If the standard now for producing is not doing absolutely nothing, than sure, Locker is "producing."

 

Of course, this low bar for QB production also explains the wide divide between posters on how they think Locker is developing.

[Pragidealist]

This is exactly the type of arguing about meaningless stuff that keeps happening with Locker. Everyone agreed that it was unacceptable and not enough, which was my entire point, but for some reason semantics are important.And yet the suggestion that the 3rd and 1 is the only thing keeps returning. Another silly thing to have to argue about.

 Two things despite that this was largely facetious.

1. A QB is considered to hold dramatic sway over an offense and to be capable of making or breaking a team single handedly. It would be silly to excuse a QB on the same level as a RB even if given equally difficult surroundings.

2. Chris Johnson actually produces cumulative totals. Jake Locker does not. They aren't really comparable.

 I don't doubt that I said that. I expect more from Britt. Of course, if he had been thrown an accurate pass he would have put of huge numbers and made sportscenter and much of the talk about him after the game would have been avoided...

 

It was the only thing for you.  Understand that. Plenty more happened, but all your negativity and anger seems to be coming from that one play. 

 

"That was the play that did it."  "there were numerous plays, but that one play was such a magnitude"  "I don't care if he scores 4 TDs"  "That one play was a cardinal sin"

[IsntLifeFunny]

It's funny, because both analogies are insightful. Perception is reality.

[Jamalisms]

This is one of those fundamental disagreements in how posters see things. I listened to that section (not the whole podcast), and I'm with Oldschool (and Jamal).

 

We can argue semantics and try and define "what is producing?" But, for some of us, doing something is not producing, not at this level and in today's passing game. If the standard now for producing is not doing absolutely nothing, than sure, Locker is "producing."

 

Of course, this low bar for QB production also explains the wide divide between posters on how they think Locker is developing.

And add to that the fact that both sides of the "divide" still largely hold out hope for his future potential... and the divide is just a crazy thing to exist as definitively as it does.

 

I just don't get it.

[reo]

And add to that the fact that both sides of the "divide" still largely hold out hope for his future potential... and the divide is just a crazy thing to exist as definitively as it does.

 

I just don't get it.

 

It's not even a divide. That's what's frustrating. It's different levels of the conversation. You want to continually say he played poorly but we all agree.

 

Prag, Cyrus and I are looking at why he played poorly to decide on if he showed progress and if those issues are fixable.

[animatormike]

The problem is it was a 7 yard throw and he was high by a yard and a half.   We are talking broad side of a barn stuff here.  We are talking little girls in wheelchairs making that throw 99 times out of a hundred.  I can hit it all day throwing behind my back both left and right handed (not that I would survive the hit that followed).  Who cares if he set his feet - it's ridiculous that we are talking about whether or not he set his feet.  He was throwing it just right over THERE.

[Pragidealist]

It's also about coming out of the game hopeful and positive about the season vs coming out of that game brimming with anger and disgust.  And then ATTACKING anyone who is positive.