Jamalisms Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 I'm listening now, something that was said between the 50:00 and one hour mark. Can't remember verbatim, and it may not have been said verbatim, but the tone was clearly set after the VY comparisons that his play was unacceptable with little room for optimism. Sorry if I put words in your mouth if you didn't actually say it, but I don't think me interpreting it the way I did was an unusual (or even unwanted) reaction. Citing his play to date and comparing that to a player well known to have been limited and limiting is an example of where he is at right now. I've listened to the podcast and there are at least three times where I say that where he is currently doesn't mean one should lack optimism, (in fact I expressed that I have optimism, though it is beginning to wane), but it instead means that optimism isn't evidence based because what has been evidenced is lacking. At one point I pointed out that he is still struggling with the same things that were discussed as issues coming out of college. I don't think that implies legitimately zero progress has been made on those issues. He is, however, doing less now than he was even last year when the line had gone to crap and he was playing injured. That's just factual and interesting and undiscussed to date and I think you could run a variety of ways with it... and those stats were in reference to a response that it's just two games. It isn't. It's well over two games and the concerning thing is that the last two games don't even match up to what was before those games. I would think that a brand new offense and tough defenses to start should be part of an evaluation of how to interpret the decrease. Assessing Jake Locker's negative play is just so much more convoluted than how I think it gets interpreted and I just don't quite understand why pointing out how bad some of the bad is, especially when it is the most recent play, is quite as controversial as it seems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 It wasn't a bad spot on Britt's catch. You only get forward progress if he doesn't try to get more. He caught it and went back but then turned up field. Once you turn up field and try to make yards, you lose forward progress. The problem is that he turned up field again after catching it and then went down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 One of those times about future optimism, Josh and Jon basically had a gun to your head though because you were going off on a very heated tangent. We don't have to continue that course of conversation, but even from as much as Jonboy got riled up in (somewhat) of a Locker defense, you should at least acknowledge how you are coming off is influencing what you are saying and painting a much uglier picture than the specific words you're using. I think there's a lot of truth that most people are actually a lot closer to agreeing, overall, than disagreeing. It's silly that the way we present our views have caused such a rift, but that's the way discussion after a loss works I guess. As for his improvements - the things I mentioned are just as real as him missing high on one of his throws. Myself and Cyrus are probably the two people on this website who explored Locker to no end leading up to the draft. So yeah, we're not exactly an unbiased audience and will be overly defensive of him in some regards, but small things, yet things that highly matter, are improving as he gets more experience. Recognizing blitzes, throwing more accurately while facing pressure, and protecting the football will lead to us winning games that we might not have with Jake from last season. It didn't win last week's game, but those are reasons for optimism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Jamal needs to take a few steps away from this game. he's way too emotionally involved in this for logical thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 One of those times about future optimism, Josh and Jon basically had a gun to your head though because you were going off on a very heated tangent.I had said it at least once already. It's fascinating how often it needs to be repeated. @reo, no offense, but you make me laugh every time Locker comes up. Define emotional. Define logical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 It was an emotionally devastating loss. I kinda get it. The "dream" scenario of us being 2-0 coming back to our first home game was seriously staring us in the face with 3 minutes left to play. Sadly, it didn't happen. It was infuriating. I won't lie I was pissed, and I was mad that Jake didn't complete that throw. However, I do stand by my initial stance that the one throw, had it been completed, would have painted a much different picture of the game had we gone on to win in regard to Locker's play. As such, I can't help but think this amount of focus on it, and the negativity it has spawned since, has gone overboard. I'm basically just repeating myself though. Really what it comes down to, in my opinion, is Jake is playing about how I thought he'd play this season. Small steps of moving forward with fist-clinching mistakes thrown in. Yet, there are flashes. I think if you asked people to be honest, most people would agree that what's we should've expected from him and so long as it does snowball into gradually better gameplay and decisions as the season goes on, everyone will be happy. It's just...no one expected our defense to look like this. For the first two weeks, we have a defense that looks like it could go a long way this year with above-average quarterback play. As such, it seems the expectations, specifically for Locker, have skyrocketed. Maybe I'm expecting "too little" of him right now, but I don't think so. I think some people are just expecting too much too fast given the way one half of our team is playing. It stings that we don't have that quarterback play that could take us to the next level (and not to nitpick, but I really don't think Matt or Fitz win us that game last week, that's my personal opinion anyway) as most of us will ultimately feel like this may be a "lost" season if Jake can't take capitalize with the rest of the pieces around him. However, that expectation was not in place a few weeks ago. This season is still about Jake's development. Losing games when the defense basically puts a win on a silver platter burns, as it should, but we can't get so hung up on individual losses, or even specific plays, that it overrides the actual crux of our season - determining if Jake can be a franchise guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 @reo, no offense, but you make me laugh every time Locker comes up. Define emotional. Define logical. You're pissed off. Pissed off people make poor analysts. You're arguing like a pissed off teenager in this entire episode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cenj Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 You're pissed off. Pissed off people make poor analysts. You're arguing like a pissed off teenager in this entire episode. Didn't you already make an unnecessary public announcement about how you were not going to listen to the podcast? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Didn't you already make an unnecessary public announcement about how you were not going to listen to the podcast? I wasn't going to but I'm at work and bored and it's what ppl were talking about on here.... It's a bunch of Jonboy and Guru talking to a pissed off Jamal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 You should see his twitter feed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Keep in mind guys that the Chargers are ranked really low in pass defense but they've played the Texans and Eagles. 2 very pass happy teams and they got into shootouts. Not saying they're good against the pass but I'm a little leery. You should see his twitter feed... what's "twitter"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitansGuru Posted September 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Keep in mind guys that the Chargers are ranked really low in pass defense but they've played the Texans and Eagles. 2 very pass happy teams and they got into shootouts. Not saying they're good against the pass but I'm a little leery. what's "twitter"? Yeah, it was a point I meant to make. The reason I didn't is because we really don't know if this is the case. They both went off on the Chargers but have not done as much against their other opponent(s). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 You're pissed off. Pissed off people make poor analysts. You're arguing like a pissed off teenager in this entire episode. Hah! Rich, Reo, rich. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 You should see his twitter feed... If you have a response to any of that, feel free to share Merc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Just for those who are curious, Locker hits his second read a few times throughout the game (coming to the opposite side of the field no less). The comeback routes to Britt (X) on the backside of the play are actually a second read. One of the few plays that the offense looks in rhythm. Ball comes out after the hitch and on time to Britt. On the 9 yard completion to Britt his momentum carries him backwards. In those cases the player is surrendering forward progress. Britt should have gone out of bounds instead at the first down marker instead. He may have wanted to stay in bounds to keep the clock running but getting the first down supersedes all else. And the delay of game is still a crap call. (Worthy of stronger language). The procedure for the official is to watch the clock and when it hits zero, verify if the ball is snapped. In real time it's so close that it looks simultaneous. The play should have gone on. Garbage. Ticky tackiest delay of game I've ever seen. Also, the first play of that drive at the end of regulation would have very likely been complete if there's better protection there. There's some type of mental error between Turner and Warmack. Then Chris Johnson misses the protection as well in that gap. Instead, Watt comes through and Locker gets hit right after or during the pass attempt. Washington was likely open (the ball was on time but off due to pressure). There's a lot of other scenarios that come into play. Locker missed that 3rd and 1 pass. The first down could have been converted twice before that on plays that were not his fault, but when it came down squarely to him, he missed it. Looking at the offense for the third time, I don't see why it should be discouraging for fans other than that one missed throw. The game still needs to slow down for him, but anyone acting as if he only stares at his primary read is wrong. He's not getting to his second read early enough if he wants to be a top quarterback, but in situations where there's greater pass protection he would likely have more time to get there. He's just not processing the field at the level of a true franchise quarterback. Plus the offense lacks chemistry and execution as a whole. Plus, I think Britt had a bad game. His game lacks detail and execution. Get Hunter out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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