Ohtani is already the GOAT

[heyitsmeallen]

6 hours ago, rns90 said:

 

 

Ok, this one is easier to explain.  They changed the throw over the rules to throwing over to first base and how many times you can step off.  This used to just bog down games.  I think it's like 3 or 2.  Once the pitcher uses those up , you are basically free to run.  Also if it's runners on 1st and 3rd, teams don't throw to 2nd anymore because it's easier to get into a run down and the guy from 3rd can easily score.  That's another gimme stolen base.

 

Some of the SB stats are misleading.  Jose Ramirez has 40.  He's not exactly super fast.

 

They also increased the size of the bases by 3”. Last year Acuna became the first player ever to have 40/50 40/60 and then 40/70 and a bunch of people complained it was only because of the bigger bases. 

[rns90]

On 9/20/2024 at 3:18 AM, Bink said:

 

 

We are talking a once in a lifetime player and he barely got any buzz. It's outrageous they couldn't win with or promote these guys. Really pisses me off. 

You know how some teams never spend any money and that’s their downfall?  Well with LAA it’s the opposite. They basically waste money in FA and signed the worst FA usually pitching but this has been going on for decades with that franchise  (Mo Vaughn ,anyone?).  The latest one is Anthony Rendon who was signed in winter 2019 and played in 205 total games since 2021.  

I also should have read the OP closely.  “I don’t watch much baseball” explains it all.

 

[rns90]

3 hours ago, heyitsmeallen said:

They also increased the size of the bases by 3”. Last year Acuna became the first player ever to have 40/50 40/60 and then 40/70 and a bunch of people complained it was only because of the bigger bases. 

OT but the Braves really can’t be dropping any games to the Marlins if they want to make the playoffs.  Might have to sweep the Mets in the next series to get in.

[CaliTitan3518]

7 hours ago, heyitsmeallen said:

They also increased the size of the bases by 3”. Last year Acuna became the first player ever to have 40/50 40/60 and then 40/70 and a bunch of people complained it was only because of the bigger bases. 

Those sliding mitts make the base runner's hands bigger too. 

[CaliTitan3518]

17 hours ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Ohtani is 5th in WAR without throwing a single inning lol. His ERA was 3.14 last year, combined with being the 1a or 1b of batting. 

And it's his career high for WAR. When he pitches his WAR has always been lower. The GOATs have career WAR avg higher than Ohtani's all time high. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

25 minutes ago, CaliTitan3518 said:

And it's his career high for WAR. When he pitches his WAR has always been lower. The GOATs have career WAR avg higher than Ohtani's all time high. 

Acting as if that is the end all be all of stats is ridiculous. If he continues being a top pitcher and the best/second best hitter in baseball for the foreseeable future then yes he will be the GOAT. He already is in terms of pure talent.

[rns90]

41 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Acting as if that is the end all be all of stats is ridiculous. If he continues being a top pitcher and the best/second best hitter in baseball for the foreseeable future then yes he will be the GOAT. He already is in terms of pure talent.

Where are these other stats?  He’s not Degrom as a pitcher .  He can’t pitch a select number of starts and dominate.

You talk in absolutes but you never have any actual numbers to back your claims.  No one cares about being the goat in pure talent.  
 

Baseball more than any other sport deals in stat accumulations milestones , bumcers etc.  Why do you think the numbers like 3,000 hits .  300 wins and 600 HR still are benchmarks for some to get into the HOF.

 

The stats revolution now rewards players for actual defense the thing you scoff at.

 

[IsntLifeFunny]

40 minutes ago, rns90 said:

Where are these other stats?  He’s not Degrom as a pitcher .  He can’t pitch a select number of starts and dominate.

You talk in absolutes but you never have any actual numbers to back your claims.  No one cares about being the goat in pure talent.  
 

Baseball more than any other sport deals in stat accumulations milestones , bumcers etc.  Why do you think the numbers like 3,000 hits .  300 wins and 600 HR still are benchmarks for some to get into the HOF.

 

The stats revolution now rewards players for actual defense the thing you scoff at.

 

I just looked it up and saw his WAR as a pitcher was 6.2 in 2022. I wonder how these metrics view him since he's such a unique case. I bet they aren't made for a player like him...ergo a meaningless stst when discussing him. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

I just looked it up, he was 2nd in 2022 and 2023 for WAR. Lol I think it's still a pretty useless stat tbh. Ocuna was better than Ohtani in 2023? Not a chance.

 

Eta: @rns90 you saying 5th in WAR isn't correct. I'm getting a bit of disputed stats, but ESPN has him at 1 in 2023, 2nd in 2022, 1st in 2021...

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/war/leaders/_/type/seasonal/year/2021

 

 

Edited September 21, 2024 by IsntLifeFunny

[rns90]

5 hours ago, Titandan said:

If he becomes a top 5 pitcher and top 5 batter for the next 5 years, I think you'll have a real argument. 
Pitching, especially, is deserving of a real premium.  Such an interesting player who fulfilled both of his potentials on offense and defense. 

I'd rather have a team of 3-4 top 15 pitchers and a bunch of .260-.290 hitters with 20-30 HR's/year and solid fielding, than two elite players like Ohtani and Trout and a bunch of scrubs.

Basketball and Football (QB position only) are really a superstar driven game.  

Baseball, on the other hand, is much more of a team driven game.  As the Angels have proven, even with Ohtani and Trout (both generational players), they couldn't achieve success without depth. 

Yeah, pitching especially the top level guys (even the #3 level startrs) are at a premium.  It's way harder to find now.  Hitters are easier to find and develop now and power is a tad overrated.  Heck , it seems like offense is a tad down.  Even contenders are carrying some scrubs at the bottom of the lineup.

 

It's a different game too, talking about pitching.  It seems like teams are almost stuck on the 100 pitch number.  Once the pitchers hit that (especially the younger ones) they get taken out.  And you get these relievers who max out their effort and velocity and lot of them just blow their arms out and get elbow/arm surgery pretty early.

5 hours ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I just looked it up and saw his WAR as a pitcher was 6.2 in 2022. I wonder how these metrics view him since he's such a unique case. I bet they aren't made for a player like him...ergo a meaningless stst when discussing him. 

If he can't come back and become a top level/ace starter than all his value is on offense and his bat, and he'll have to produce these MVP level seasons to even be considered the GOAT.  And before you'll say, he'll do it etc...It's very difficult.  I'm not talking about consistent 30HR seasons , those are commonplace.  I'm talking like yearly 40+HR seasons and basically him being so much better than the rest of the league.  It's just not done because it's difficult.

[heyitsmeallen]

20 hours ago, rns90 said:

OT but the Braves really can’t be dropping any games to the Marlins if they want to make the playoffs.  Might have to sweep the Mets in the next series to get in.

The Braves have been absolutely decimated by injuries this year. If they make the playoffs it will be a miracle. I can’t even believe they are only 2 games back. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, rns90 said:

Yeah, pitching especially the top level guys (even the #3 level startrs) are at a premium.  It's way harder to find now.  Hitters are easier to find and develop now and power is a tad overrated.  Heck , it seems like offense is a tad down.  Even contenders are carrying some scrubs at the bottom of the lineup.

 

It's a different game too, talking about pitching.  It seems like teams are almost stuck on the 100 pitch number.  Once the pitchers hit that (especially the younger ones) they get taken out.  And you get these relievers who max out their effort and velocity and lot of them just blow their arms out and get elbow/arm surgery pretty early.

If he can't come back and become a top level/ace starter than all his value is on offense and his bat, and he'll have to produce these MVP level seasons to even be considered the GOAT.  And before you'll say, he'll do it etc...It's very difficult.  I'm not talking about consistent 30HR seasons , those are commonplace.  I'm talking like yearly 40+HR seasons and basically him being so much better than the rest of the league.  It's just not done because it's difficult.

 

 

We've been fortunate to see some historic seasons of late--Judge, now Sho. Imagine if both of these guys do it again? 

 

I think pitching does take a toll on his offensive production, so it will be very hard for him to match these numbers. From a fantasy baseball perspective, he's going #1 overall but if I get that pick I might trade him for a fortune. 

 

 

[abenjami]

Ohtani is actually the first to go 50/50/50...

 

50 stolen bases

50 home runs

50 million stolen from him

[scine09]

 

@IsntLifeFunny, I meant to circle back to this thread the other day when Ohtani had his three homer, 10 K game.  He's clearly the best player in the game.  I can't argue it anymore.

Edited October 23, 2025 by scine09

[abenjami]

13 hours ago, scine09 said:

 

@IsntLifeFunny, I meant to circle back to this thread the other day when Ohtani had his three homer, 10 K game.  He's clearly the best player in the game.  I can't argue it anymore.

 

He's clearly the best player in the game right now but is he the GOAT?

 

I don't think so at this point.