El Guapo Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Ok. People offended by a statue or a monument. I dont see anybody idolizing any of them. This is bs political theatre. But theater propagated by the left to undermine ones history and sense of country. But if being offended by some is a reason to take things down, be careful. Should Italy takedown the coliseum? Statues of Nero? How about any references to Woodrow Wilson, an elitist racist. Robert Byrd? Kennedy in the age of MeToo? How about banning any t-shirt with Che Guevara, a murdering psycho deeply offensive to Cuban-Americans? How far do you want to take this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, El Guapo said: Ok. People offended by a statue or a monument. I dont see anybody idolizing any of them. This is bs political theatre. But theater propagated by the left to undermine ones history and sense of country. But if being offended by some is a reason to take things down, be careful. Should Italy takedown the coliseum? Statues of Nero? How about any references to Woodrow Wilson, an elitist racist. Robert Byrd? Kennedy in the age of MeToo? How about banning any t-shirt with Che Guevara, a murdering psycho deeply offensive to Cuban-Americans? How far do you want to take this? Seems pretty simple to say we just want to remove statues and celebrations of the traitors who fought against the United States. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 I've never been for removing the statues. Leave 'em up as a reminder of a terrible time period. If you forget history, it'll repeat itself. Besides, anyone who draws inspiration will be shitty with or without the monument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJClown Posted June 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Rolltide said: Request for Number9, Reo, Maxx, Towner, Oilerman and Stephen(Total racist!). Please remove that piece of shit queer statue of your democrat hero!!! Lol. You are so uneducated and historicially challenged. Its ok, alot of Born US citizen are the same... It was southerners, not Democrats who were Confederates. There were northern democrats too who supported Lincoln. The Civil War was not about Democrats vs Republicans. It was about North free states vs Southern slave states. Even Southern Republicans supported slavery. And KKK members were generally southern former Confederate soldiers. But people like you want to claim they were Democrats. But it's all silly because the Democratic party is no longer the sates right party the used to be. And the Republican party is no longer the "Union" federal party that it used to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 54 minutes ago, Starkiller said: Seems pretty simple to say we just want to remove statues and celebrations of the traitors who fought against the United States. I’m not here to defend any of them. My ancestors were not living here. But as one who loves history, that view is harsh and relegates a complex time to a simple line. And Indians fought against the US. Fuck them too? So did Bill Ayers, Tom Hayden, and others. How about Hanoi Jane? Maybe she should have been shot. When Trump wins in 2020 and California wants to secede, are they traitors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, El Guapo said: I’m not here to defend any of them. My ancestors were not living here. But as one who loves history, that view is harsh and relegates a complex time to a simple line. And Indians fought against the US. Fuck them too? So did Bill Ayers, Tom Hayden, and others. How about Hanoi Jane? Maybe she should have been shot. When Trump wins in 2020 and California wants to secede, are they traitors? ...Indians were defending their territory. Do any of the others on that all star list have monuments? It is a nuanced situation, but you seem to be the one not dealing with the gray. Why the hell should we have a massive statute of Nathan Bedford Forrest in Nashville? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanruss Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: ...Indians were defending their territory. Do any of the others on that all star list have monuments? It is a nuanced situation, but you seem to be the one not dealing with the gray. Why the hell should we have a massive statute of Nathan Bedford Forrest in Nashville? That one is a private statue unfortunately. .. nothing can be done about it other than planting trees along the interstate to hide that abomination that looks like it came from the rick and morty universe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 No... not gray. I say its history- all of it. Leave them alone. And if you are talking about that awful statue on I-65, I think it was funded and on private land. My point is that I think its dangerous to allow present ideas to take down statues , monuments, paintings that you find offensive. It is not too outlandish to think that things may change in the future and monuments, paintings, books that you have no issues with may be suddenly persona non grata Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 On the other hand, you may be right. Because if I was anywhere in charge when Commies finally fall from grace in Cuba, I would take down every painting, statue, slogan from Che and the Castros and sink them in the abyss... So maybe I am being hypocritical, which I hate above all faults... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, El Guapo said: No... not gray. I say its history- all of it. Leave them alone. And if you are talking about that awful statue on I-65, I think it was funded and on private land. My point is that I think its dangerous to allow present ideas to take down statues , monuments, paintings that you find offensive. It is not too outlandish to think that things may change in the future and monuments, paintings, books that you have no issues with may be suddenly persona non grata You say those were complex times yet act like there is no nuance here. They’re public statutes of traitors. I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but if cities decide to remove them then that is their agenda. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, El Guapo said: On the other hand, you may be right. Because if I was anywhere in charge when Commies finally fall from grace in Cuba, I would take down every painting, statue, slogan from Che and the Castros and sink them in the abyss... So maybe I am being hypocritical, which I hate above all faults... I think it goes back to another thread we are discussing about Federalism. I don’t think it would be right for the federal government to send an edict to states and municipalities to get rid of them. That isn’t how it’s supposed to work. If the states or cities see fit to remove them because of what they represent I’ll support them. I do think moving them all to museums is a solid idea. And exactly what you’re saying above. Think of the actual feeling that draws out of you. No one could tell you that you were wrong to feel such a way. That’s how blacks feel when they see these huge monuments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No1TitansFan Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 hour ago, El Guapo said: Ok. People offended by a statue or a monument. I dont see anybody idolizing any of them. This is bs political theatre. But theater propagated by the left to undermine ones history and sense of country. But if being offended by some is a reason to take things down, be careful. Should Italy takedown the coliseum? Statues of Nero? How about any references to Woodrow Wilson, an elitist racist. Robert Byrd? Kennedy in the age of MeToo? How about banning any t-shirt with Che Guevara, a murdering psycho deeply offensive to Cuban-Americans? How far do you want to take this? As I posted earlier, these statues were not put up in the immediate aftermath of the historical event, they were put up years later in order to sanitize the actual history of the event. 1/3 of the deaths in the civil war were disease related that had nothing to do with battles, a large number were due to malnutrition many of them due to maltreatment of POWs. Many deaths were the result of unsanitary conditions in field hospitals not equipped to deal with the injuries caused by exploding rounds. The average amputation, which was the treatment for those wounds took 8 minutes and they usually ran out of the limited anesthesia employed early in the day; if you survived the surgery, you faced a recovery in a poorly ventilated understaffed facility without enough water to properly hydrate often in sweltering conditions as most of the action took place in the south and they paused battle during winter months. This was not some noble conflict to be commemorated, no one on either side was putting up statues immediately following it. To quote Lincoln "If there is a worse place than hell, I am in it." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 hour ago, El Guapo said: I’m not here to defend any of them. My ancestors were not living here. But as one who loves history, that view is harsh and relegates a complex time to a simple line. There is history (which is fine) and then there is celebrating traitors and slavery... 1 hour ago, El Guapo said: And Indians fought against the US. Fuck them too? So did Bill Ayers, Tom Hayden, and others. How about Hanoi Jane? Maybe she should have been shot. The Native Americans were victims of conquest, genocide, and betrayal. Hardly comparable. They were never traitors. Antiwar protesters are not traitors. Certainly not anti-Vietnam protestors. Maybe you could make an argument for pro-Hitler Americans back during WW2, but I don’t think there are a whole lot of statues to those people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number9 Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 I think transferring the statues makes the most sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 35 minutes ago, El Guapo said: On the other hand, you may be right. Because if I was anywhere in charge when Commies finally fall from grace in Cuba, I would take down every painting, statue, slogan from Che and the Castros and sink them in the abyss... So maybe I am being hypocritical, which I hate above all faults... Did you enjoy the toppling of Saddam's statues? Or did you oppose that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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