OILERMAN Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 it's almost to the point of everyone voting party line and it doesn't matter what election or candidates. This is the goal. It's now a sporting event and it's presented as a match. Forget the actual governing or how the candidates serve their constituents. Did your party WIN! They also make the race for the Presidency the SB when in reality it doesn't even matter that much. The Senate and House elections nationally and at the state level are way more important. Our lives won't change much at all no matter who's elected president. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Yep, he'll probably win and the Republicans will claim that 1 million signatures to recall him is a victory and proof they are on the right path. This state is completely polarized, so the uproar was fairly evenly matched by the blind defense. Obama might not even win this state, it's almost to the point of everyone voting party line and it doesn't matter what election or candidates. You sure? Latest polls show Obama with a lead of 10%+ of the vote there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted May 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 No, I'm not sure. Romney is an easy candidate to dislike, so there's always a chance in wrong. I can say that there's a sense that Walker will win and I have literally never heard a compelling reason why. It tends to be partisan incense that a recall is a "re-do" and in poor taste from a bitter bunch of sore losers. Based on that, I can only imagine that the same people will vote against Obama for equally partisan reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 It tends to be partisan incense that a recall is a "re-do" and in poor taste from a bitter bunch of sore losers. I would like to have been able to pull out the people from all those protest that voted Republican in the election and tell them to STFU and go home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 This proves my point. Everyone tries to paint any "conservative" as a Rush Limbaugh disciple clinging to their guns and religion. It's just absolutely ludicrous. No, but most of them are far closer Han they would like to admit. The tea party is a perfect example of how many Nutjobs are in the GOP. These people would rather run this country into the ground than compromise with democrats to actually get something done. -Conservatives believe that men are more capable of making a decisions regarding a woman's body... Really? Everyone always wants to make it about the man or the woman. What about the child? The man and the woman BOTH made their choice when they decided to have unprotected sex. Dems rally against the death penalty, but support abortion; I've always found that a tad ironic. So a woman made a choice when she was raped? She is going to have a mentally defect baby? How bout when she is going to have a baby that is going to kill her or when the baby will almost certainly die but will scar any chance for her to be able to have children in the future. I understand people's passion when it comes to abortion but it is created from a warped moral code and ignorance of the realities of the world. I'm still in neutral territory on capital punishment. Some fuckers just need to die. -Belief in religious intolerance and want to see Christianity as the law of the land...How many Democratic presidents have we had who didn't call themselves Christian? You have to go back a very long way to find any President who didn't identify himself as a Christian. Whether they were a "true" Christian is another matter entirely. And I don't think ANYONE wants to see Christianity as "law." It's a ridiculous statement. Maybe Christian values and influences sure. But as law? No way. They absolutely want Christianity as the law of the land and it's really bad when they have imagined conversations with god telling them how to influence world politics. This happens a lot more than you would like to admit. Several dema are in fact religious, but the difference is they still believe in a separation. No one is saying you can't exercise your individual faith, only that the govt should also protect my fright to practice mine and that it has religion has no business In politics. -Herman Cain nor Donald Trump ever had a chance at the Presidential nomination and everyone knows it. For every right-wing "nutjob" you throw out there, there are just as many dems in the same boat. Anyone remember this guy? The republican party is ran by complete whack jobs from the top down. I find it ironic that when the issue is something that has never effected them negatively, they tend to lean right but when it has effected them negatively they tend to lean left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Do you know anything about his policies w/o looking them up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 There's no doubt that the Republican party has been floundering for a good while (struggled with leadership, political framing and identity), but the whole idea of whether Republicans/Conservatism being "dumb" is still outrageous. Of course everyone will point to whatever's in the media but the reality is that it's basically entertainment. People love to hate on Fox News but MSNBC has to be equally bad if not worse at times. Olbermann and Hannity are equally unbearable. Same for Rush Limbaugh and Arianna Huffington (both are like trying to have a conversation with an automated telephone system). The only difference is that Hannity and Limbaugh are nationally popular and for the most part Olbermann/Huffington are not. So we really should get past that particular topic. ____ While I'm on the topic, something that confuses me (and I want to state ahead of time that I don't consider myself a Democrat or Republican. At this point I don't want to vote for anyone in this election cycle): First is the divergence in modern liberal theory of natural rights and property/labor rights. Both historically take root in the same thought in political theory (See John Locke) and if we assume protection of natural rights through social contract (government/society) how can we remove property rights (result of independence and labor which is owned by the individual) from the equation? They're one in the same in political philosophy. You can't have freedom without property rights because an individual's effort and work are invested in every object they create or effect. This is the major, underlying reason of why the Republican party have issue with health care reform, tax policy and the like. It's not that they don't care about people, but there's an inherent disconnect between an entitlement society (good or bad) and "natural rights" that has to be reconciled. You cannot separate property rights from liberty. So if the Democratic continues to stand up for the concept of individual rights, "natural rights" at some point they need to reconcile this intellectually and to this point they really haven't, much to the frustration of Republicans. So standing up for the individual rights of freedom of speech, "right to your body" but not appropriately addressing property rights is at it's heart, contradictory. Second, how can one accept so easily and wholeheartedly the concept of natural freedoms and rights while totally disregarding the concept of religion? How could a person innately have inalienable rights or intrinsic value without those values, freedoms or right deriving from some place and existing universally? Where could these things possibly come from and how could they even remotely be justified? The only argument I could begin to understand is that such freedoms are some type of mutually agreed upon social agreement, but that disregards their intrinsic value and puts them on the same level of traffic laws. If there's no higher law, how could we ever get to this point? And if one agrees that there is some type of universal truth, inherent rights or other type of reality/truth that exists everywhere for everyone at all times, past, present and future, how could any possibly justify ridiculing the existence of a God? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I posted this already I believe... My wife's Aunt called me a dumbass for voting for Obama. She said he is a socialist. She is currently getting some kind of welfare covering her medical expenses. She's a fat ass smoker. Her mother died and she inherited half of the house. She is afraid to sell it because it will give her too much income and she'll possibly lose her government benefits. Is this not ironic? A guy I work with was bitching about Obama care. I told him(in a dead serious manner) they need to end Medicare/Medicaid and stop treating people that cannot pay their medical bills or have no insurance. Just turn them away. The idiot just stood there with a dumb look on his face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 You're right @OILERMAN, it's highly ironic and it certainly shows the dissonance that exists in modern politics. A lot of things exist in matters of degrees though and there are a number of important differences between "Obamacare" and Medicare/Medicaid as it exists now. Regardless, obviously a number of social programs have existed for a great while and Republicans/Democrats alike have benefited and taken advantage of the system plenty. The whole entitlement system is a mess though. It's not even a partisan issue at this point. Costs keep going up and the system has been doomed to failure for years. The only reason something hasn't been done about it is because whoever tries to fix/adjust it is going to get political hell for it because Republicans/Democrats are going to protect their benefits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragidealist Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 You're right @OILERMAN, it's highly ironic and it certainly shows the dissonance that exists in modern politics. A lot of things exist in matters of degrees though and there are a number of important differences between "Obamacare" and Medicare/Medicaid as it exists now. Regardless, obviously a number of social programs have existed for a great while and Republicans/Democrats alike have benefited and taken advantage of the system plenty. The whole entitlement system is a mess though. It's not even a partisan issue at this point. Costs keep going up and the system has been doomed to failure for years. The only reason something hasn't been done about it is because whoever tries to fix/adjust it is going to get political hell for it because Republicans/Democrats are going to protect their benefits. Its not the only reason. There are huge problems that are hard to fix. One is the what Oman said earlier. Are we going to start turning ppl away from hospitals? Are we going to turn ppl away from getting meds for serious mental health issues? If we do all of a sudden stop the medicaid/medicare system, where in the hell would all of those jobs go? All those costs that are escalating?- a lot of that pays for people's jobs. What about children and youth- without programs paid for TennCare for example many many kids won't get case management, CCFT, or acute care. Instead they go to Juvenile detention, which costs a hell of alot more and doesn't redirect children from institutions as adults. The problem is not the party systems. Its that there are no easy answers. The healthcare law actually has so much in it that is good, that never gets talked about. The only thing that is ever talked about from teh ACA is the mandate, what is not talked about are the concepts and structutures that are being created to localize, share costs, and improve care such as Patient Centered Medical Homes, Health Homes, Accountable Care Organizations, shared saving models, value based contracting, etc. There are very complicated problems that take complicated answers and the politics is a very very poor forum to solve those problems or promote possible solutions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 It's absolutely comical that people are bitching about the price of health care reform while we still have wars going on at the cost we're spending over there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragidealist Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 It's absolutely comical that people are bitching about the price of health care reform while we still have wars going on at the cost we're spending over there. Its also sad when they keep bitching about it, despite all the cost saving mechanisms that are in the ACA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 It's absolutely comical that people are bitching about the price of health care reform while we still have wars going on at the cost we're spending over there. What happens/happened in Iraq / Afghanistan could have a transformative effect on the future of the entire region, middle eastern culture/politic and state/regional stability. It could easily impact the next hundred plus years of international politics. So there's that. Whether or not the US / Britain were right to get involved in Iraq / Afghanistan is a totally different issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 ??? Sarcastic? Kidding? Or just trying to be an asshole? Neither sarcastic or kidding. And I guess if being honest makes me an asshole then so be it. Basic IQ tests show that people in the south are not as educated, on average. And rural southerners, I'm sure, are far less educated than those who live in more urban areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Neither sarcastic or kidding. And I guess if being honest makes me an asshole then so be it. Basic IQ tests show that people in the south are not as educated, on average. And rural southerners, I'm sure, are far less educated than those who live in more urban areas. 2 things though 1) IQ isn't about education 2) There tends to be an unintended cultural bias w/ IQ/intelligent tests so it's kind of hard to judge a large variety of people w/ the same tests. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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