wiscotitansfan Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 Another thing I debated with last night with my roommate on how we have such a different perception of the recent movies.... I simply don't mind the fact that these use a lot of the same tropes, stories and damn near everything that the originals used (but with lesser characters). A 7th and (technically) 9th movie in a series following a lot of the same things as the 1st and 2nd doesn't count as a negative in my book. It doesn't take away from the entertainment to me. I get why people hate how similar these movies are to others but just simply have a drastically different opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, wiscotitansfan said: Another thing I debated with last night with my roommate on how we have such a different perception of the recent movies.... I simply don't mind the fact that these use a lot of the same tropes, stories and damn near everything that the originals used (but with lesser characters). A 7th and (technically) 9th movie in a series following a lot of the same things as the 1st and 2nd doesn't count as a negative in my book. It doesn't take away from the entertainment to me. I get why people hate how similar these movies are to others but just simply have a drastically different opinion. TFA was way too similar to ANH right down to the trench run at the end. I get why they did it after the prequel mess. as for TLJ, it has some really bad pacing and story arcs; The constant running of the resistance fleet, the out of place casino planet, not telling Poe the plan, etc... There are so many things wrong with the script it's not even funny. Not to mention some of the dialogue is on par with the prequels which is hard to imagine. Honestly I'm fine with Luke's portrayal and the Snoke death scene which is what most of the fanboys seem to be up in arms over. As for the Emperor death scene in RoTJ, I had no idea so many felt like it was cheap. I've always interpreted it as the emperor being blinded by his failure to turn Luke to have him replace Vader which led to him not sensing Vader turning on him. Once Vader picked him up he loses control of the force lightning which was the ultimate embodiment of the true power of the darkside. This is alluded to by the emperor right before he uses it on Luke and again in RoTS when Windu turns it back on the Emperor which causes him to become disfigured. I love that entire scene. /nerd rant off Starkiller 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiscotitansfan Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 minute ago, oldschool said: TFA was way too similar to ANH right down to the trench run at the end. I get why they did it after the prequel mess. as for TLJ, it has some really bad pacing and story arcs; The constant running of the resistance fleet, the out of place casino planet, not telling Poe the plan, etc... There are so many things wrong with the script it's not even funny. Not to mention some of the dialogue is on par with the prequels which is hard to imagine. Honestly I'm fine with Luke's portrayal and the Snoke death scene which is what most of the fanboys seem to be up in arms over. Which ironically is one of the last thing that a lot of debates stem from. The characters (besides Poe IMO) are truly terrible in the new ones but in my eyes at least the action scenes are redeeming enough where I will watch them multiple times because I love the world itself and any schmoe could be entertaining. I personally think ANH is one of the worst star wars movie at this point in time, period, so clearly I don't think the better character development and much more logical story-telling was a major redeeming factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, wiscotitansfan said: Which ironically is one of the last thing that a lot of debates stem from. The characters (besides Poe IMO) are truly terrible in the new ones but in my eyes at least the action scenes are redeeming enough where I will watch them multiple times because I love the world itself and any schmoe could be entertaining. I personally think ANH is one of the worst star wars movie at this point in time, period, so clearly I don't think the better character development and much more logical story-telling was a major redeeming factor. I grew up on Star Wars but they aren't great movies. It blows my mind so many lost their shit over TLJ. The world is awesome though. wiscotitansfan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) The worst thing TLJ did was somehow make me - a guy who’s watched the OT probably 100 times each, stood in line to see the prequels on opening day (even knowing they were going to be bad after TPM), read dozens of EU novels/comics, played dozens of SW video games, watched the animated Clone Wars and Rebels series multiple times, and probably spent several thousand dollars on merchandise in my lifetime- no longer be excited about this Universe. It hasn’t killed my enjoyment of the old content, but there is zero enthusiasm about the future of Star Wars. I care dick all about episode 9 and the upcoming Han Solo movie (that is being predicted to bomb horribly). They had an endlessly rich universe with amazing lore, characters, and plot-twists, and rather than being a true care-taker to this Universe, they let Rian Johnson fuck it up...just because. Even as (in retrospect) mediocre as TFA was, at least Abrams was clearly building towards something. He had a vision that all TLJ had to do was build upon to work towards a conclusion in episode 9. Instead, Johnson wanted to skirt predictability so badly that he essentially ripped up the script from Force Awakens and decided to do his own thing. And he did it poorly. And the box office reflects it. The reviews reflect it. And Mark’s comments prior to the film launching reflect it (I know Disney has since made him walk them back, but he all but warned us that many would hate it). So congrats Disney. You paid billions of dollars for this franchise. You ripped away lore you no longer wanted. Youve now crafted your own universe and foolishly didn’t think different directors would have different visions while attempting to tell a three part story. And now you’ve disenfranchised millions of people who were beyond devoted to the product. But hey, at least Captain Purple Hair and Please-Watch-This-Chinese-Market Technician got their screen-time. Edited December 28, 2017 by Mercalius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, Mercalius said: The worst thing TLJ did was somehow make me - a guy who’s watched the OT probably 100 times each, stood in line to see the prequels on opening day (even knowing they were going to be bad after TPM), read dozens of EU novels/comics, played dozens of SW video games, watched the animated Clone Wars and Rebels series multiple times, and probably spent several thousand dollars on merchandise in my lifetime- no longer be excited about this Universe. It hasn’t killed my enjoyment of the old content, but there is zero enthusiasm about the future of Star Wars. I care dick all about episode 9 and the upcoming Han Solo movie (that is being predicted to bomb horribly). They had an endlessly rich universe with amazing lore, characters, and plot-twists, and rather than being a true care-taker to this Universe, they let Rian Johnson fuck it up...just because. Even as (in retrospect) mediocre as TFA was, at least Abrams was clearly building towards something. He had a vision that all TLJ had to do was build upon to work towards a conclusion in episode 9. Instead, Johnson wanted to skirt predictably so badly that he essentially ripped up the script from Force Awakens and decided to do his own thing. And he did it poorly. And the box office reflects it. The reviews reflect it. And Mark’s comments prior to the film launching reflect it (I know Disney has since made him walk them back, but he all but warned us that many would hate it). So congrats Disney. You paid billions of dollars for this franchise. You ripped away lore you no longer wanted. Youve now crafted your own universe and foolishly didn’t think different directors would have different visions while attempting to tell a three part story. And now you’ve disenfranchised millions of people who were beyond devoted to the product. But hey, at least Captain Purple Hair and Please-Watch-This-Chinese-Market Technician got their screen-time. @Cyrus get in here because this is what you need to combat rather than putting words in my mouth. Merc, you are being ridiculous. The Movie is 5th all time in box office sales to date so to say it's a flop is flat out wrong. For every crazy like you they lose, they'll gain 100 casuals which is the goal of any business. Hell my wife hates star wars and likes the movie, mission accomplished for Disney. Now I didn't like Rian Johnson's script and his amateurism is on full display throughout the movie but you are crazy if you think this is more than a blip on the radar for Star Wars moving forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, oldschool said: @Cyrus get in here because this is what you need to combat rather than putting words in my mouth. Merc, you are being ridiculous. The Movie is 5th all time in box office sales to date so to say it's a flop is flat out wrong. For every crazy like you they lose, they'll gain 100 casuals which is the goal of any business. Hell my wife hates star wars and likes the movie, mission accomplished for Disney. Now I didn't like Rian Johnson's script and his amateurism is on full display throughout the movie but you are crazy if you think this is more than a blip on the radar for Star Wars moving forward. The movie is in a class all it’s own from money loss from one week to the next. It literally holds the record. Previous films that tanked or did worse than expected (Batman vs Superman, JL, Eragon) dropped 100 million. TLJ dropped 150 million and is tracking to do (generously) 2/3rds of what The Force Awakens did. Star Wars prints money, but if you wanna talk business, this thing is making way less than projections indicated. Opening day was good, but it has fallen in epic fashion since. If you don’t think Disney cares that this may make 500 million less than The Force Awakens you’re kidding yourself. Edited December 28, 2017 by Mercalius headhunter 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mercalius said: The movie is in a class all it’s own from money loss from one week to the next. It literally holds the record. Previous films that tanked or did worse than expected (Batman vs Superman, JL, Eragon) dropped 100 million. TLJ dropped 150 million and is tracking to do (generously) 2/3rds of what The Force Awakens did. Star Wars prints money, but if you wanna talk business, this thing is making way less than projections indicated. Opening day was good, but it has fallen in epic fashion since. If you don’t think Disney cares that this may make 500 million less than The Force Awakens you’re kidding yourself. Its at 900M with strong showings in the UK and Germany; It opens in China on Jan 5th. Even if the projections are off, Disney is making money hand over fist. You need to step away and reevaluate things. Cyrus is dead on about fans like you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 Just now, oldschool said: Its at 900M with strong showings in the UK and Germany; It opens in China on Jan 5th. Even if the projections are off, Disney is making money hand over fist. You need to step away and reevaluate things. Cyrus is dead on about fans like you. Lol no he isn’t and saying this movie isn’t a disappointment commercially is laughable. Being profitable does not equal successful when your profits are 1/3 less than they were two years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Mercalius said: Lol no he isn’t and saying this movie isn’t a disappointment commercially is laughable. Being profitable does not equal successful when your profits are 1/3 less than they were two years ago. Keep telling yourself that. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/12/28/star-wars-is-saved-as-the-last-jedi-catches-up-with-jurassic-world/#7dc1ed225349 Edited December 28, 2017 by oldschool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 minute ago, oldschool said: Keep telling yourself that. K. Keep spinning it how you want. A 30-35% decrease (depending on the day charted) is a disappointment. Even being in a conversation with Jurassic World and the new Jumanji movie in earning after what the Force Awakens did says all it needs to say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 Just now, Mercalius said: K. Keep spinning it how you want. A 30-35% decrease (depending on the day charted) is a disappointment. Even being in a conversation with Jurassic World and the new Jumanji movie in earning after what the Force Awakens did says all it needs to say. Read the article I just linked. You are being emotional. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 Just now, oldschool said: Read the article I just linked. You are being emotional. I was literally going to link that article to you. Even in Spin-Mode that article spells out everything I’ve said clear as day. 30-35% losses from TFA. I never said it was going to go in the red and not turn a profit. But pretending it hasn’t lost potential and (predicted) money is blatantly false. And I promise you Disney isn’t blind to this. That’s why they’ve been in spin mode for a week blaming everything from bad weather, review bots spamming negative reviews on RT (that was proven as a lie) and several other ridiculous factors instead of owning up that they made a bad movie. Why would they need to come out with excuses if they were pleased with its earnings? Look beyond the corporate spin. It’s right in front of your face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mercalius said: I was literally going to link that article to you. Even in Spin-Mode that article spells out everything I’ve said clear as day. 30-35% losses from TFA. I never said it was going to go in the red and not turn a profit. But pretending it hasn’t lost potential and (predicted) money is blatantly false. And I promise you Disney isn’t blind to this. That’s why they’ve been in spin mode for a week blaming everything from bad weather, review bots spamming negative reviews on RT (that was proven as a lie) and several other ridiculous factors instead of owning up that they made a bad movie. Why would they need to come out with excuses if they were pleased with its earnings? Look beyond the corporate spin. It’s right in front of your face. You need to read it again then. The author flat out explains why you can't expect TLJ to be on par with TFA revenue wise and that if it holds strong over the 3rd weekend like expected, it will be considered a box office success. Calling it spin mode is laughable since last week he wrote an article on whether Starwars was dying as a result. It in this article he explains how and why TLJ recovered. TLDR you are wrong Edited December 28, 2017 by oldschool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, oldschool said: You need to read it again then. The author flat out explains why you can't expect TLJ to be on par with TFA revenue wise and that if it holds strong over the 3rd weekend like expected, it will be considered a box office success. Calling it sping mode is laughable since last week he wrote an article on whether Starwars was dying as a result. It in this article he explains how and why TLJ recovered. TLDR you are wrong ...right. One guy’s opinion on why a ~33 drop in sales is normal should be taken as gospel. It’s expected to lose a third of your profit in any business. That’s why we’ll blame the weather, Star Wars fatigue, and alt right trolls on rotten tomatoes. Because the profits are exactly where we want them to be! Not delusional at all. A 10% dip? Sure, no sweat. 15? Maybe even 20? Ok. But a third? (After gaining ground, mind you). Get out of here. Edited December 29, 2017 by Mercalius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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