oldschool Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'd be in favor of moving down if we got a good offer. We have so many holes & I don't think Williams is that special a player that you just couldn't pass him up. I don't know how much better he is than Gregory, Shelton, or Ray. If we can add an additional 1st & get one of those 3 I think it's a better deal. The other thing is that DL have not been playmakers in LeBeau's defense over the years, it's always been the LB's. Now, it could just be that their LB's were the most talented players on the D, they did have some good ones, but LeBeau runs a pretty traditional 3-4 where the DL's role is to occupy the blockers. When you look back at the Steelers best D's they had a monster NT in Hampton, two big, 2 gapping DL (Aaron Smith was the one DL that was a real playmaker), and 2 pure, pass rushing OLB's like Harrison, Porter, and Greg Lloyd. So, if you look at how those old Steeler teams would draft I'd think that the NT or OLB would be the pick. Times & schemes have changed though, we'll see. This is an excellent point. I can't think of a single impact DE that has played under Lebaue to be honest. It's simply not how he constructs his defense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big2033 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I don't have a good feel for the draft yet but people make these comments about "top 5 talent" and such like there is some guarantee just because the guy is picked early he is automatic. Yet when we go down the list of legit studs taken year in and year out it IS NOT the top 5 guys that sit on top of their position group. Watt was not a top 5 guy. The draft is like people with limited vision reaching around in the dark. Things are not as clear as the seem to be. Beckhum and Donald were taken 12 and 13 in the last draft (Lewan, possibly a pro bowl caliber LT was 11). If we just draft one guy like those two we got a top 5 guy. I agree it is about being smart and not reaching for need. But I actually think Webster has done a decent job (except for being pushed to take an OG or QB) with his 1st round picks if he is left to pick BPA. Yes, there are guys like Lewan who can be had later on that could very well be pro-bowl guys. You just have to let the draft come to you. So yea, if a team like Cleveland is going to give us their 2 1st round picks and another one next year I seriously consider the deal even if there are no other picks involved. If the Jets want to make a deal to move up from 6 does anyone not think we can get a high quality pick at #6? A guy like Gregory could easily still be on the board at 6 depending on if the QBs go early. We shall see how things look 3 years from now. Maybe a guy like Malcom Brown or Danny Sheldon is the guy(s) getting all the pro bowl invites and for whatever reason the guy we stayed put on turns out to be JAG. I understand your perspective. But you also have to take into account the strength of a draft overall. If you look at NFL.com Draft Combine's player ratings from 2011, J.J. Watt would actually be the highest rated player in this draft. Sometimes your talent pool isn't deep, and the talent drop off is significant. Is the draft deep enough to move back and still get a potential pro bowler? Or possibly the best player overall? I think this year the chances are slim. In 2011 draft that Watt came from also had: Cam Newton Von Miller Marcell Dareus A.J. Green Patrick Peterson Julio Jones Aldon Smith Jake Locker Tyron Smith Blaine Gabbert J.J. Watt Every pick ... in that order ... outside of Gabbert and Locker (Man we made a huge mistake with this class lol) have appeared in the pro bowl. I don't believe this draft is nearly as talented. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 This is an excellent point. I can't think of a single impact DE that has played under Lebaue to be honest. It's simply not how he constructs his defense. The only one I can think of is Aaron Smith, who was good for 2-3 years, but nothing like a Casey or Sheldon Richardson. I know they drafted Ziggy Hood, an interior penetrator type, and it didn't work out at all, he was better in Jax last year as a 4-3 DT. I think there's a good chance we take one of the OLB's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 The only one I can think of is Aaron Smith, who was good for 2-3 years, but nothing like a Casey or Sheldon Richardson. I know they drafted Ziggy Hood, an interior penetrator type, and it didn't work out at all, he was better in Jax last year as a 4-3 DT. I think there's a good chance we take one of the OLB's. I agree. I think Gregory is the pick now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big2033 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I agree. I think Gregory is the pick now. My only fear with Gregory: I feel like every year there's a slew of pass rushers that have a quick first step BUT "Need to bulk up." And for every one that does and has a good career (Aldon Smith) there's another that's never bulks up and is a flop (Dion Jordan). Too many undersized rush DEs have been going high purely based on speed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRamrod Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 My only fear with Gregory: I feel like every year there's a slew of pass rushers that have a quick first step BUT "Need to bulk up." And for every one that does and has a good career (Aldon Smith) there's another that's never bulks up and is a flop (Dion Jordan). Too many undersized rush DEs have been going high purely based on speed. Jordan and Gregory are totally different players. He doesn't fit the bill as the stereotypical lanky/speed/undersized edge rushers. Gregory has great flexibility, violent hands, and understands leverage. Give him a year to get stronger and he's an all-pro in my opinion. And besides, Jordan isn't playing in a D that fits his strengths anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRamrod Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 DP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigma Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Unless Cleveland makes us a great offer (picks 12 & 19 in the first round + whatever else equates the value)...I think we should take Williams. But whether it's him or someone else...whereas individual skills are important, we must also consider (simply) how their play will be impacted by those we have/put around them... http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/usc-s-leonard-williams-not-resting-on-laurels-with-nfl-dream-so-close-214520745.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nash Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Mark Howard believes that the Jets will move up for marriota.. And at 6 we take Ray to play olb .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkster Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I think I prefer fowler to Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulluck4dmvp Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm very pro-Fowler. The kid is a stud. Ray is a baller as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 If we move back to 6 and the plan was to take Gregory anyway what have we lost? We could still get lucky and get Gregory anyway or at the very least get a guy like Ray or Fowler (keep in mind I believe LeBeau is calling this shot, or I hope he is). And as I keep stating, 3 years from now we might find out Ray or Fowler (or someone else) are better or equal players anyway. There is also a chance we could still get Williams if we moved back to 6. Nothing is cut and in stone yet. Of course in my perfect world I'd hope Winston lasted until 6 and then trade for Cleveland's 1st round picks from there. I have no real basis for saying this & it's just a feeling, but I wouldn't be surprised if Danny Shelton winds up being a better player than Williams. He could be a monster. There's also a rumor the Browns are interested in Mariota, so that could be our big trade right there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I have no real basis for saying this & it's just a feeling, but I wouldn't be surprised if Danny Shelton winds up being a better player than Williams. He could be a monster. There's also a rumor the Browns are interested in Mariota, so that could be our big trade right there. Our best chance for a trade down is if Tampa takes Winston no. 1 overall. Right now that's very unlikely. Contrary to what some have said, they're leaning Mariota (Per Adam Schefter). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Our best chance for a trade down is if Tampa takes Winston no. 1 overall. Right now that's very unlikely. Contrary to what some have said, they're leaning Mariota (Per Adam Schefter). I agree with this. In fact, even though it seems like right now Winston is the consensus best pro QB prospect I have a feeling by draft time MM will be #1 on every board. Besides the off field stuff the fact is MM was a much, much better QB than Winston last year. He's a much better athlete & has just as strong an arm, maybe a bit weaker. The offense he played in is an issue but not as big as most think. He's very smart & consistently finds the open guy & basically never throws picks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I agree with this. In fact, even though it seems like right now Winston is the consensus best pro QB prospect I have a feeling by draft time MM will be #1 on every board. Besides the off field stuff the fact is MM was a much, much better QB than Winston last year. He's a much better athlete & has just as strong an arm, maybe a bit weaker. The offense he played in is an issue but not as big as most think. He's very smart & consistently finds the open guy & basically never throws picks. I'd be surprised if many NFL teams have Winston no. 1 on their board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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