Legaltitan

To provide a vehicle for enmity between Dorne and the Lannisters and a reason for them to do battle (thus throwing the realm into further chaos) without sending "Frog" on a year-long fantastic voyage.

Ok I get that argument. They didn't show it so there is some doubt. Never was any doubt in my mind from the moment it happened. And then this first episode seemed to make it clear he was dead. Was it here someone said they were maybe keeping their options open in case Martin had big plans for Stannis? And it seems to me it is time to end the bitching and whining about the shows not being perfect like people want them. If not for the show, we would have nothing to continue the saga. Who knows if the Winds of Winter will ever be finished? One thing that I think is great is that when there is a boring tangential storyline that the show guys don't want anymore, they just fucking bam end it. The painfully long and boring Dorne plot that went absolutely nowhere because the dumbass got burned alive and his friends killed? Bam, over. No one gives a shit.

Actually you are right she did say that now that I think about it. I was thinking too literally about fire vs ice, her being a fire and the wall being ice. But yes it's the concentration of magic that is important. Plus it would make sense her powers would be strongest as she approaches her true enemy.

I never saw any doubt about it. She spoke the words pronouncing her sentence upon him, swung her sword, and you heard the sound of raw meat being hit. Would be totally contrary to Brienne's character. That was her main raison d'etre to avenge Renly's death, and then of course to serve Catelyn, which she failed at, and to find her children, which to that point she had failed at. She wasn't going to fail to kill Stannis. Brienne is subsumed by duty and honor. There is a good part of that, but the bad part is her vengeance. Would make zero sense for her to have not killed Stannis at that point.

Too tall. She seems all Essos, like the rest of her religion.

I would have thought the opposite to be true.

??? Of course he's dead. We saw and heard him get killed. And then Bolton talked about him being dead at the beginning of the episode.

Thank God.

omg omg omg

This is good news IMO because we are really getting two separate stories, each of which is cool.

This passage is talking about the "present day." Its not saying there were that many at one point - the text is saying there are that many now.

By way of update to our conversation about Valyrian steel, though very rare, it is not QUITE as rare as we thought. I am a third through A Dance with Dragons on my most recent re-read, and came across this passage: "There were hundreds of Valyrian longswords in the world, but only a handful of Valyrian arakhs."

This is a near unprecedented mental unraveling we are witnessing before our eyes. Other than perhaps Woolfolk'sUncle slowly losing his mind, I can't say I've seen anything quite like it. Let's all pray for him.

You know, the first 50 times ManningEnvy used his ultra-creative cutdown of "Fist Shaker," it wasn't too impressive. But on the 51st time I really realized the genius and awesomeness of it.

Ah, no . . . even this nerd has his limits. Ok, to be honest I am that nerdy, I just didn't think about it, and wish I had because it's awesome.

This is what happens when a nerd goes to the Caribbean

I made a sand castle of the wall today at Druiff Beach, Aruba. Took a pic. Will upload when I get back.

I never said he did. Just that it was yet one more reason. Yes the primary reason was Jon saving his life and his chance to give the sword that was formerly shameful to him a new honorable home. And of course he would have been hunted down and killed for desertion. Morning pretty much says to himself.

I thought I laid out a pretty good case myself.

Just got to the part where Jon returns after fleeing the wall and Mormont is talking about his plans to go north. Talks about how Jon has the blood of the first men in him and his wolf meant for the wall, and how he is likely to have stored memories others do not. Yet another reason for the gift of the sword. Mormont knows he needs Jon - his battle with the wights cemented that. There is nothing Mormont would not give Jon to keep he and his wolf at the wall. Winter is coming. On top of everything else, Longclaw was a signing bonus.

Never made the Drogo Drogon connection. Awesome how rich these books are. Can still miss something as obvious as that. I don't see it as all foregone conclusion that Dany will cross the narrow sea. It would be very Martin like to not have that happen. Hell the Targa come from old valaryiA. maybe it's her destiny to unite the east, free all the slaves, and restore Valaryia as a free city. Maybe no one "defeats" the Others. Not in battle anyway.

Startes re reading the books, forcing myself to go slowly. I never could read a good book slowly, instead I race through to find out what happens. Having read these twice through before helps. Anyway, have come across two things relevant to our discussions here: 1. Daneareys we have discussed whether and to what extent she really is destined to be the hero to save westeros. What if she never comes to westeros at all? Two passages caught my interest in the first book. "yet Vaes Dothrak is large enough to house every man of every khalasar, should all the Khalid return to the Mother at once. The crones have prophesied that one day that will come to pass, and so Vaes Dothrak must be ready to embrace all its children." what is Dany called by all of her people? Mother. And she is the mother of dragons. And several times while married to Drogo she reflects on the fact she is to join the other former Khalessi in the city anyway when her Khal dies. And then the kicker. Her son is proclaimed/prophesied by the old khlessi crones to be "the stallion that mounts the world." Mormont explains: "The stallion is the Khal of khals promised in ancient prophecy, child. He will unite the Dothraki into a single khalasar and ride to the ends of the earth, or so it was promised. All the people of the world will be his herd." now we all know the son dies. But what if the crones are right, but instead of a human child it is Drogon they are talking about, ridden by Dany? 2. The sword Longclaw lots of discussion about how unbelievable it is that such a valuable sword would be given to Jon first, Mormont says after the attack that he had nearly forgotten the sword once it had been returned to him by Jorah, upon his exile, Mormont could not bear to look at it because of how painful it was to him the sword lost all value to him at that point because of the shame on his house then of course we learn the sword is given because Jon saved his life: "A swords small payment for a life, boy." But there's more to it than that. He talks about how Jon not only saves his life, but figured out how to kill the wights: "You fought bravely... And more to the point, you thought quickly. Fire! Yes, damnit. We ought to have known. We ought to have remembered. The Long Night has come before. Oh, eight thousand years is a good while, to be sure. Yet if the Nights Watch does not remember, who will?" So Jon didn't just save his life - he found he way to maybe save the entire world. Mans then we get several pages that talk about Jons complicated feelings about his brother and being a bastard and how Ice is really the sword he wanted. Take it all together and the picture you get is Mormont sees Jon somewhat as the son he no longer has, and himself as a father to Jon. He knows the watch needs Jon, he knows Jon is going to want to leave once he finds out Robb is marching south, and he thinks they could both personally be good for each other. Very complex psychologically take it all together and there is nothing unusual at all about Longclaw passing to Jon

Forgot about war between children and others long ago. Gotta read the books again and this time take my time. But still the children very easily could have reached an uneasy peace with the others if not a strict pact. Leave each other the fuck alone - you do your thing and I'll do mine. The children and their power is greatly diminished anyway at this point and the weir woods continue to be destroyed throughout Westeros. Or maybe the children fit in as a way to counter the others in the north, or maybe even have an agreement with them. Maybe the reason the others know about how things are going in the south is because of the children and their knowledge gained through the weirwooods. All different ways for the children to factor in to all of this.

I doubt the guy is 100% dead on with his theory but I bet he is very close. Makes sense in the context of the whole theme of the book, the idea of balance that is clearly throughout, the rejection of the concept of good vs evil, and Martins personality. The white walkers have a legit beef and are on the move for a reason and it no doubt is tied to the Starks losing winter fell and the return of dragons and shit. And Jon snow no doubt is a critical figure in the middle of all this, however he emerged after getting stabbed. I really hope Martin gets to work and ties it all up, and does it well. I just thought of another way this theory has been foreshadowed. Dany has upset the balance of things in the east by knocking over cities and setting slaves free without any sort of long term plan for what comes next. It is spreading war and disease misery and chaos. And the red priests over there are fanning the flames. So too, is she on he her way to upsetting the delicate balance of fire and ice in Westeros?

I don't remember any talk about there being war between the Others and the Children of the Forrest.