Cyrus Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Negative reaction is always going to get more air time than it's positive counterpart. It's human nature. I don't think the sky is falling although I do think Microsoft opened themselves to this. I just don't think they really give a shit. Air time by whom though? You undoubtedly have your social circles. If you were looking into buying a car or going out to a new place for dinner - or whatever, who do you ask? If one person tells you that XYZ Restaurant is the place to go, it means something. If two more people tell you the same restaurant is the place to go, it really means something. Now replace your search for dinner with a search for a gaming console and instead of asking them in person, you're asking them on Facebook or Twitter. It's all the same thing. It's just a different medium. In the past the barrier to asking someone these types of questions were higher. Maybe you're pretty hungry and don't have time to call up everyone. Maybe you don't want to bug people by sending out a mass text message. (And these are fairly modern examples - imagine 15 years ago!). Now there's virtually zero barriers to engaging with others. On top of that, it may be fifty to a hundred people you're asking at a time. Why the discussion hits a snag is because you know something about technology. You know something about gaming consoles and you understand the intricacies. The reality though is that most people don't. If you were shopping for some wines for a dinner party you might be completely clueless. You send out a tweet and you get responses from your wine knowledgeable friends and they agree that the 2010 Saint Cosme Gigondas is an excellent wine that real connoisseurs appreciate and is viscerally pleasurable enough for the average person too. That holds a lot of power and it was all communicated via social media. The Xbox One or PS4 are no different. For corporations, all these discussions are public! They can literally eavesdrop on so many personal conversations and have real data and real communication to tap into. That gives them an opportunity to be responsive to their consumers and to communicate back. This is the future for now. It's up to the companies to decide what they want to do with it. They can even directly engage with the people that are talking about their products and they can build relationships with individuals who may bring in other consumers via social media. It's the same business principles that have existed forever in society. The world of Television and Radio Ads are the aberration contextually. Human communication and relationships have been there throughout all of history and we're finally getting to a point where businesses can do it at a regional and international scale due to social media platforms. The virtual world can make any place be local. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Air time by whom though? You undoubtedly have your social circles. If you were looking into buying a car or going out to a new place for dinner - or whatever, who do you ask? If one person tells you that XYZ Restaurant is the place to go, it means something. If two more people tell you the same restaurant is the place to go, it really means something. Now replace your search for dinner with a search for a gaming console and instead of asking them in person, you're asking them on Facebook or Twitter. It's all the same thing. It's just a different medium. In the past the barrier to asking someone these types of questions were higher. Maybe you're pretty hungry and don't have time to call up everyone. Maybe you don't want to bug people by sending out a mass text message. (And these are fairly modern examples - imagine 15 years ago!). Now there's virtually zero barriers to engaging with others. On top of that, it may be fifty to a hundred people you're asking at a time. Why the discussion hits a snag is because you know something about technology. You know something about gaming consoles and you understand the intricacies. The reality though is that most people don't. If you were shopping for some wines for a dinner party you might be completely clueless. You send out a tweet and you get responses from your wine knowledgeable friends and they agree that the 2010 Saint Cosme Gigondas is an excellent wine that real connoisseurs appreciate and is viscerally pleasurable enough for the average person too. That holds a lot of power and it was all communicated via social media. The Xbox One or PS4 are no different. You just defeated your own argument. Most gamers are not posting online bitching about console features because they don't care to go into it with that much detail. They will likely buy both consoles or the one that a higher percentage of their friends play. In the end it will be about the exclusives on each console and nothing more. Your wine example is interesting though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 You send out a tweet and you get responses from your wine knowledgeable friends and they agree that the 2010 Saint Cosme Gigondas is an excellent wine that real connoisseurs appreciate and is viscerally pleasurable enough for the average person too.Elitist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 You just defeated your own argument. Most gamers are not posting online bitching about console features because they don't care to go into with that much detail. They will likely buy both consoles or the one that a higher percentage of their friends play. In the end it will be about the exclusives on each console and nothing more. Your wine example is interesting though. Just about everyone I know, including myself, only has one console (we're all in the 25-30 age range). The higher percentage of friends that play a console being the reason for purchase is a huge reason, but it's not any different from word of mouth. Your friends are endorsing it through their action, but the concept is the same - friends consumption behaviors can and do have an effect on your own behavior. (Not saying that people are "slaves" to it, but that it matters). As for the exclusives, I do believe that they matter and it's a huge reason why the Xbox had success (Halo). However, most people are playing Madden, Call of Duty and other multi-platform games. In this current context where neither console is available for actual purchase (not pre-order), the discussions between friends and other engagements is very significant and will play a role in what console they decide to purchase. Yes, maybe Halo (although it won't be made by Bungie) will end up being the reason some choose Xbox One. But maybe they all play Call of Duty and have no loyalty to either console - who knows. And what about the parents who are buying a game console for Christmas? They frequently look to the advice of store employees and others all the time. Just walk into any Best Buy around Christmas. Relationships matter and word of mouth is the most significant marketing tool there is. Elitist Doesn't mean I can afford to drink it on a regular basis. And yes, I'm a huge fan of Saint Cosme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Just about everyone I know, including myself, only has one console (we're all in the 25-30 age range). The higher percentage of friends that play a console being the reason for purchase is a huge reason, but it's not any different from word of mouth. Your friends are endorsing it through their action, but the concept is the same - friends consumption behaviors can and do have an effect on your own behavior. (Not saying that people are "slaves" to it, but that it matters). As for the exclusives, I do believe that they matter and it's a huge reason why the Xbox had success (Halo). However, most people are playing Madden, Call of Duty and other multi-platform games. In this current context where neither console is available for actual purchase (not pre-order), the discussions between friends and other engagements is very significant and will play a role in what console they decide to purchase. Yes, maybe Halo (although it won't be made by Bungie) will end up being the reason some choose Xbox One. But maybe they all play Call of Duty and have no loyalty to either console - who knows. And what about the parents who are buying a game console for Christmas? They frequently look to the advice of store employees and others all the time. Just walk into any Best Buy around Christmas. Relationships matter and word of mouth is the most significant marketing tool there is. Doesn't mean I can afford to drink it on a regular basis. And yes, I'm a huge fan of Saint Cosme. Word of mouth from people you know is far different than what random people post on the internet. If it's not for you than that is a huge problem. I'm not going to get into here but the current generation of 15-30 year olds are far too open and rely on random advice way too much. My contention is that if you poll your friends and people you trust, it's likely going to be split on the consoles like it has been for this entire generation unless you are already part of a group that prefers one or the other. You got me on the store clerk and parent angle, I have to admit. Then again I would argue uninformed consumers might just be sucked up by the "It's more than a gaming console" drivel Microsoft is spewing. I guess what it comes down to is that I don't believe the Internet uproar is a big deal while you believe it's representative of the community as a whole. I see where you are coming from and you have made a strong argument. I simply don't agree with it. Good conversation as usual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Word of mouth from people you know is far different than what random people post on the internet. If it's not for you than that is a huge problem. I'm not going to get into here but the current generation of 15-30 year olds are far too open and rely on random advice way too much. My contention is that if you poll your friends and people you trust, it's likely going to be split on the consoles like it has been for this entire generation unless you are already part of a group that prefers one or the other. You got me on the store clerk and parent angle, I have to admit. Then again I would argue uninformed consumers might just be sucked up by the "It's more than a gaming console" drivel Microsoft is spewing. I guess what it comes down to is that I don't believe the Internet uproar is a big deal while you believe it's representative of the community as a whole. I see where you are coming from and you have made a strong argument. I simply don't agree with it. Good conversation as usual. They're random to you and I, but not to their friends that are Twitter as well - I suppose that's the important context. I don't mean to say that people are searching on Twitter for anonymous advice, but that social circles that are connected are seeing it on their timeline (from friends who are commenting) and they're getting word of mouth advice from the friends that follow them. And for what it's worth, I don't have Facebook, I don't use Twitter on a personal level and I keep a pretty low profile as a whole online. However I realize I'm the exception, not the norm. People communicate constantly with close friends and other acquaintances all the time on Twitter / Facebook. I used to think that a lot of communication online through social media was very shallow for a long time (and most of it is). However it's just a medium. The content can be significant and quite serious if it wants to be, it's all about who's using it and who's communicating. It can be incredibly useful at times even though 90%+ of the time it's just inane drivel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiscotitansfan Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Good points by both, i think the xbox wins when it comes to a store clerks reference though, by far. Not because it is more money but it is the easier sell. A family may not use the features but having a shopping list of exciting features is a lot easier to sell to a clueless parent than a lot of the technical things that people are complaining about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 This may clear things up a little. Microsoft really need a crash course in marketing. http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharrdWood Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Read this post that aggregates a lot of Cliff B's tweets... http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/cliff-bleszinski-defends-xbox-one-drm-reckons-sony-will-do-the-same/0117188 Sure, at the end he engages in a bit of CYA, but I doubt he truly disavows any of the sentiment. "Gamers" really make me laugh...they seem to want everything and everything for free. The most gob-smacking thing to come out of E3 is that "gamers" don't actually care about games, taking to the Internet en masse to extol the PS4, in spite of none of them having experienced it...especially vis-a-vis the XBox One. This is fan-boyism at its absolute worst. The PS4 has...what, exactly? That's right, nothing I'd choose to play as an exclusive. The XBox One will launch with FAR superior titles. There can be no debate. Face it, PS4 fanboys are merely an extension of Apple fanboys...all bluster and no backbone. Whaaa!!!! I can't pirate games?! Whaaaa!!!! Hey, newsflash, dumbasses...videogame studios are going out of business like nobody's business because they can't make any money. OMG! Evil capitalists!!! I should be able to buy the game and give it over to 10 of my friends!!! Whaaa!!! Why is it no surprise that Jamal is on that side of the debate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharrdWood Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Oh, and then there's this, that REALLY spells it out for idiots... http://pastebin.com/uCmdh9jB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Oh, and then there's this, that REALLY spells it out for idiots... http://pastebin.com/uCmdh9jB Great read. No doubt all games will eventually be digital, it just makes too much sense. Im probably going to get an Xbox One. I like the idea of signing in on my account on another xbox, I also like having no disks, my favorite classic games are scratched to hell. And Ive always liked Xbox games more than Playstation. I usually buy multiplatform games except Halo and then theres minecraft and a bunch of Arcade games on Live. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiscotitansfan Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 "If you always want to stay with what you have, then keep current consoles, or a PS4. We're TRYING to move the industry forwards towards digital distribution... it'sa bumpy road" Interesting read but clearly just a guy bitching about being complained about. That blog is so poorly written that if I were a PR guy I would steer away from it and do "damage control" for something that so few people will actually see. With what oldschool said a million times, they are completely right with their thinking but they are jumping the gun by AT LEAST 5 years. Pretty much all consoles have to agree on a strategy to go digital or not, a few titles here and there won't decide an industry. Xbox has the bigger name exclusives but to say that Sony has nothing is retarded (this is coming from an xbox fanboy ever since Halo: CE). As to what I quoted above though... gamers do want to stay with the concept they have currently. It is microsoft that is so arrogant to think that people need what microsoft has to offer. "PS4 fanboys are merely an extension of Apple fanboys...all bluster and no backbone" from Charrdwood. I would argue the complete opposite because it is microsoft that assumes it's customers are the sheep and will follow without complaints. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Read this post that aggregates a lot of Cliff B's tweets... http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/cliff-bleszinski-defends-xbox-one-drm-reckons-sony-will-do-the-same/0117188 Sure, at the end he engages in a bit of CYA, but I doubt he truly disavows any of the sentiment. "Gamers" really make me laugh...they seem to want everything and everything for free. The most gob-smacking thing to come out of E3 is that "gamers" don't actually care about games, taking to the Internet en masse to extol the PS4, in spite of none of them having experienced it...especially vis-a-vis the XBox One. This is fan-boyism at its absolute worst. The PS4 has...what, exactly? That's right, nothing I'd choose to play as an exclusive. The XBox One will launch with FAR superior titles. There can be no debate. Face it, PS4 fanboys are merely an extension of Apple fanboys...all bluster and no backbone. Whaaa!!!! I can't pirate games?! Whaaaa!!!! Hey, newsflash, dumbasses...videogame studios are going out of business like nobody's business because they can't make any money. OMG! Evil capitalists!!! I should be able to buy the game and give it over to 10 of my friends!!! Whaaa!!! Why is it no surprise that Jamal is on that side of the debate? This is a fucking retarded argument, honestly. FAR superior titles? Ni No Kuni and The Last of Us have completely shit on anything Microsoft has put out in the last year. Completely. My 360 has dust on it, with Halo 4 sitting in its tray - waiting, wishing I would get off my Playstation to play it more. PS4 Fanboys are Apple Fanboys? Hardly - phones lock you in to contracts, making it (mostly) ridiculous to own multiple brands once you're locked in. Gaming consoles aren't nearly as restrictive (nor redundant) to own competing brands. I'm not rich, nor am I a bleed-throat gaming nerd. I enjoy video games - so I bought all of the last generation. It's actually pretty affordable when you go from being 13 begging this as Christmas presents to earning a salary from a decent paying job. I've owned numerous MS, Sony, and Nintendo consoles over the last many years - enjoying moments from all of them. I've spent less than 1,000 dollars to own the 360, PS3, and Wii consoles over the last 6 years - buying most of them during their "prime" pricing numbers. I've spent over 1000 bucks on my cellphone in the last 10 months alone. How in any way is that remotely the same? It's not like Sony and Microsoft make you pay a 300 dollar penalty fee if you decide you want to play your Wii for a few weeks to see what all the hype about Xenoblade Chronicles is about. Also, calling people "Fanboys" for citing a grievance with an underwhelming, if not awful, presentation of a future product is pretty ridiculous when you go on to further lump any/everyone that has a problem with anything Xbox-One related into the same cliched, nonsensical group. Hypocrisy 101. Dive in front of every bullet thrown Microsoft's way and call the protesters "fanboys" while LOLing at their every complaint. Sounds reasonable. Digital is the future. Yes, everyone knows this. So are alternate energy sources and 3d printing for common needs - yet the respective industries aren't dumb enough to force those down everyone's throat just because they're what "will" happen at some random point in the future. Society wants things now, and no one likes to change their style or expectation of living, let alone leisure. The X-box one is trying to force too much of that at one time, yet people with a problem with it are acting like naive neanderthals who can barely hold gaming controllers? That's not true. If anything - the Xbox One is reaching out to the "moms and grandmas" of the world with their all-encompassing entertainment allure while the Playstation 4 is targeting the more traditionally "pure" gamer market (the bloggers, Twitter users, and social media hounds). It's a conundrum - yes, the "grandma" system may make more sense 5 years from now, but when the Internet is blowing up RIGHT NOW based on what you're putting out there - you have an obvious problem. The two should ideally correlate, but obviously don't - at least on how you're trying to plug your console. The long-term outlook on a market should affect the current market, but it shouldn't overwhelm it. Hard-copy media is dying, yes, but it's not dead yet - and there's a FUCKING LARGE group of people that don't want it to die and horribly hate that it has receded as far as it has - and these aren't solely people over 40. Pissing off this demographic is fucking stupid, and citing them as "unwilling to evolve" and "ridiculous in their complaints" is about as sound in logic as me chain-smoking intentionally for the next 30 years because there will probably be a cure for lung cancer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 I'm a Sony fanboy and buying/selling used games is piracy? Good stuff, now GTFOH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Sounds like XBox is doing a 180. http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/19/xbox-one-drm-used-games-reversal/?utm_medium=feed&utm_source=Feed_Classic&utm_campaign=Engadget Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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