What are Republicans doing for future generations?

[Justafan]

4 minutes ago, pat said:

@IrishTitansFan is right, there’s nothing Christ-like about “conservative” values.  The Catholic Church took a hard right turn to cover up their enormous sexual abuse scandal, but again, that’s kind of the point.  The churches aren’t particularly Christian.

 

Do unto others was a big part of the teaching.  Now you go and it’s a bunch of conservative nonsense.  So people stopped going.

 

@Justafan these are two Catholics posting here, the nihilism is the coming from the pulpit.

Is the coming from the pulpit? Not sure how to respond to that.

 

So, call everyone who disagrees with you a racist is do unto others?

[LongTimeFan]

1 minute ago, Justafan said:

Is the coming from the pulpit? Not sure how to respond to that.

 

So, call everyone who disagrees with you a racist is do unto others?

He's an "A la carte" Catholic.

[pat]

Just now, Justafan said:

Is the coming from the pulpit? Not sure how to respond to that.

 

So, call everyone who disagrees with you a racist is do unto others?

When I was growing up, the dominant Catholic voices were

 

Mother Theresa - wholehearted free service to the poorest of the poor

 

John Paul II - heavy support for liberating Poland from the USSR

 

That’s who we grew up with.  Name a current Catholic figure with similar support the poor, overthrow the dictator sentiments.  I’ll be waiting.

[Justafan]

2 minutes ago, pat said:

When I was growing up, the dominant Catholic voices were

 

Mother Theresa - wholehearted free service to the poorest of the poor

 

John Paul II - heavy support for liberating Poland from the USSR

 

That’s who we grew up with.  Name a current Catholic figure with similar support the poor, overthrow the dictator sentiments.  I’ll be waiting.

Umm... basically all of them?

[pat]

41 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Umm... basically all of them?

That's not what I hear on the occcasion when I've gone to church.   I'm relaying my experience of how the sermons have changed, the experience of my siblings who have all steadily found themselves more and more isolated.  Now the church is more Opus Dei than Jesuit.  The result is a disconnect between the clergy and lay parishioner. 

Maybe I had an unusual experience growing up after the second vatican in the south, and things simply snapped back.

May I ask, are you Catholic?  Are you a confirmed Catholic?  How much of the push back to @IrishTitansFan and myself is direct personal experience going to the Catholic church, attending Catholic schools, etc?

[LongTimeFan]

5 minutes ago, pat said:

That's not what I hear on the occcasion when I've gone to church.   I'm relaying my experience of how the sermons have changed, the experience of my siblings who have all steadily found themselves more and more isolated.  Now the church is more Opus Dei than Jesuit.  The result is a disconnect between the clergy and lay parishioner. 

Maybe I had an unusual experience growing up after the second vatican in the south, and things simply snapped back.

May I ask, are you Catholic?  Are you a confirmed Catholic?  How much of the push back to @IrishTitansFan and myself is direct personal experience going to the Catholic church, attending Catholic schools, etc?

I was raised Catholic, went 2 yrs to Catholic school, my father taught CCD and was an ordained deacon later in life.

 

If you're pro choice, you are an "a la carte" Catholic.

 

 

[pat]

3 minutes ago, LongTimeFan said:

I was raised Catholic, went 2 yrs to Catholic school, my father taught CCD and was an ordained deacon later in life.

 

If you're pro choice, you are an "a la carte" Catholic.

 

 

Dude you posting a screenshot shot of your million dollar bank account is like the literal example of pushing a camel through the eye of a needle 

[pat]

@LongTimeFan aren’t you divorced too?

 

quit throwing stones

[LongTimeFan]

8 minutes ago, pat said:

@LongTimeFan aren’t you divorced too?

 

quit throwing stones

I never said I still practiced Catholicism. Gave that up in my 30's

[Justafan]

17 minutes ago, pat said:

That's not what I hear on the occcasion when I've gone to church.   I'm relaying my experience of how the sermons have changed, the experience of my siblings who have all steadily found themselves more and more isolated.  Now the church is more Opus Dei than Jesuit.  The result is a disconnect between the clergy and lay parishioner. 

Maybe I had an unusual experience growing up after the second vatican in the south, and things simply snapped back.

May I ask, are you Catholic?  Are you a confirmed Catholic?  How much of the push back to @IrishTitansFan and myself is direct personal experience going to the Catholic church, attending Catholic schools, etc?

I'm actually an atheist (I would loosely describe myself as a humanist because I believe we can find morals from reason and a self motivated desire to a be a member of a functioning society and don't necessarily need god to lay it out for us but that's another conversation entirely), but my wife is catholic (I married her in Italy, kidnapped her, and brought her back with me!). I don't have anything against them, and I think a lot of the teachings of the church are positive, and that, along with Western philosophy, lays the foundation for Western morals and civilization. 

 

I'm not discounting your experience. I am questioning the idea that there are not people on the right who share many of the same beliefs Irish (and I assume you) learned in your catholic upbringing. I'm also questioning whether many of the beliefs of the left - abortion and homosexuality being the obvious ones - align with Christian beliefs. Lastly, I question whether your actions to call someone a racist for defending those beliefs - align with the do-unto-others attitude that you said was so important. We've both been here a long time. I don't think that's you, and I think you know it was wrong. 

[IrishTitansFan]

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

That's all well and good but the catholic church itself is pretty conservative and most of Christianity has embraced the right. Just because you interpret it in a specific way, doesn't mean the left's moral structure aligns with Christianity. In fact, in many instances the left's moral structure is in direct opposition to the Christian right. Your POV is a very post-modern nihilistic pov and one that conservatives (and Christians) would likely disagree with. Not to knock your beliefs... I have nothing against forgiveness and treating people well, I just think it's more a mischaracterization of people on the right who also believe in those things rather than a coherent argument about beliefs and alignment by political party. 

I never said that. Of course the opinions of the majority church is to the right on many issues, but they’re not values.

 

What are “Christian values” that are conservative? I can almost guarantee they’re not values, they’re political issues like gay marriage/abortion etc. they’re not values!

 

Thats the issue I have. Not that I’m morally superior, just that it’s bullshit to call it that 

[Justafan]

Just now, IrishTitansFan said:

I never said that. Of course the opinions of the majority church is to the right on many issues, but they’re not values.

 

What are “Christian values” that are conservative? I can almost guarantee they’re not values, they’re political issues like gay marriage/abortion etc. they’re not values!

 

Thats the issue I have. Not that I’m morally superior, just that it’s bullshit to call it that 

Of course, you said that. That's exactly what you said, and you even offered examples. It was off base and reeks of partisanship and an unfair characterization of people on the right. 

[IrishTitansFan]

8 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Of course, you said that. That's exactly what you said, and you even offered examples. It was off base and reeks of partisanship and an unfair characterization of people on the right. 

I never said it aligned with the left. I said the Catholic values I was taught are what led me to identify more with left wing social politics. Of course no values are going align with a certain political persuasion because that would be ridiculous.

 

What I have an issue with is framing right wing politics as “Christian values”. That’s the whole point. Of course people will disagree with me. I have very different political views to my dad and brother

 

Name some Christian values that your wife believes in? Now name some conservative “Christian values”

 

I can guarantee most of them won’t be “Christian values” they will be conservative political viewpoints that are framed as Christian values

 

 

[Justafan]

12 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

I never said it aligned with the left. I said the Catholic values I was taught are what led me to identify more with left wing social politics. Of course no values are going align with a certain political persuasion because that would be ridiculous.

 

What I have an issue with is framing right wing politics as “Christian values”. That’s the whole point. Of course people will disagree with me. I have very different political views to my dad and brother

 

Name some Christian values that your wife believes in? Now name some conservative “Christian values”

 

I can guarantee most of them won’t be “Christian values” they will be conservative political viewpoints that are framed as Christian values

 

 

"I get it's a phrase, but I feel like Christian Values align more to the left than the right, particularly on social issues. At least with how I was raised"

 

 

[pat]

As an example of @IrishTitansFan, it's hard to find a biblical reference equating gender to genetic genitals.  There's plenty of male / female binary representations, but a trans person would argue they were "born this way".  The political positions of the church are obviously quite conservative on the topic.  But those positions are disconnected from the scriptures.

And so you end up with things like the wedding my sister went to, where the sermon was all about transgender this and that.  It's not very Christ-like to celebrate by punching down on someone outside of the room.  It reeks of pride and vanity for the priest to take the occasion of a couple's wedding as an opportunity to pontificate their political views on gender.

 

This kind of thing is why there's so many former Catholics.  That and mixing up the mass so that no one knows what to say anymore.