How much should a 5 ton heat pump installation run?

[9 Nines]

I got a quote today that is much higher than I expected.  After various power provider and Trane rebates, the prices were $17.5 and $18.5K  for two different Trane 5 ton heat pump systems.  While I knew a Trane system would command a high price, I was only expecting $10 to $12K based on a 5 ton installation 11 years ago. 

Anyone here in the HVAC field or have knowledge about current pricing:  How much should a 5 ton heat pump installation cost?

[Supdawg]

Inflation man. I just had a 2 ton packaged system installed last year for 6k. Gas heat for my master suite. 5 ton is huge. Everything is way more expensive than it was even a year ago. 

[titanruss]

he doesnt believe in inflation.

 

his grocery prices have been the same for over 20 years!!

[abenjami]

Why not just get some electric blankets or sleep in the space ship?

[chef]

If you want I can ask my Dad.  Had a HVAC company for many many years before retiring a few ago.   He did sell Trane as well.  Used to be more Carrier but moved to Trane and American Standard, which are basically the same with the latter being their value brand minus a couple bells and whistles Trane has.

 

If nothing else he could tell you what it USED to cost.

[9 Nines]

6 hours ago, chef said:

If you want I can ask my Dad.  Had a HVAC company for many many years before retiring a few ago.   He did sell Trane as well.  Used to be more Carrier but moved to Trane and American Standard, which are basically the same with the latter being their value brand minus a couple bells and whistles Trane has.

 

If nothing else he could tell you what it USED to cost.

 

Sure, thanks.  I am going to get American Standard proposals.  I have a smaller American Standard unit for the upstairs that is 5 years old, so it would be good, as far as trained service, to have both the same anyway. American Standard uses all aluminum coils, as Trane, which is my main attraction after having a problem with Lennox's failed two metal coils that corrode easily. 

[9 Nines]

15 hours ago, Supdawg said:

Inflation man. I just had a 2 ton packaged system installed last year for 6k. Gas heat for my master suite. 5 ton is huge. Everything is way more expensive than it was even a year ago. 

 

5 ton system would cost more, but not double, all else equal.   Labor would be roughly same, and the system would be more, but not double. 

[chef]

4 hours ago, 9 Nines said:

 

Sure, thanks.  I am going to get American Standard proposals.  I have a smaller American Standard unit for the upstairs that is 5 years old, so it would be good, as far as trained service, to have both the same anyway. American Standard uses all aluminum coils, as Trane, which is my main attraction after having a problem with Lennox's failed two metal coils that corrode easily. 

If you answered here already somewhere my apologies, but was this a split or package system?  I assume a replacement as opposed to an install from scratch. Reworking of any ductwork/vents? New pad? Or upgraded electrical requirement? 

 

He thought on first thought that did seem high but was trying to gather more info.

[9 Nines]

3 hours ago, chef said:

If you answered here already somewhere my apologies, but was this a split or package system?  I assume a replacement as opposed to an install from scratch. Reworking of any ductwork/vents? New pad? Or upgraded electrical requirement? 

 

He thought on first thought that did seem high but was trying to gather more info.

 

I am not very familiar with the split term, but I think that is what it is.  Air handler, with coils in attic and a compressor outside.

New attic duct work on replaced system and for the 2 ton system that will stay. A new breaker. Pad. 

[Starkiller]

Not sure what it costs in America, but in the UK it’s 10,000 pounds

[chef]

2 hours ago, 9 Nines said:

 

I am not very familiar with the split term, but I think that is what it is.  Air handler, with coils in attic and a compressor outside.

New attic duct work on replaced system and for the 2 ton system that will stay. A new breaker. Pad. 

 

 

Some thoughts from my Dad:

 

* with attic duct work that may certainly drive up your costs, so hard for him to tell what % of total is that.  you get a breakdown?  he also said make sure you need it as opposed to make just a new flex duct here and there and minor vent work, and some companies will push it to pad bills

 

* mentioned as discussed that Trane and Amer Standard almost exactly same thing off same assembly line there in Tyler TX.  rec'd not going for max efficiency systems (you looking at 20, 21 SEER?) as those are often sold as something that will pay for themselves in energy savings but he mentioned it rarely if ever actually pays for itself over lifetime of today's units. which in reality is about 10-12, 15 at best.  also said it's pretty known that the max efficiency systems tend to have way way more reliability issues as currently configured.  he assumed any units you were looking at would run variable.

 

* endorsed the alum coil issue, saying Carrier had really been first way back but most moving to that now out of cross-contamination and related corrosion issues.  had heard of the Lennox issue you mentioned.

 

* did encourage you to bid around saying look for smaller shop, but mentioned that via consolation and buyouts, and retirement, not many like that left, and big houses always pushing for max profit not fair deal.  with that in mind combined with tech labor shortage, shipping issues, increased material costs, chip shortages, and likely high demand, your spots are probably just charging an extra $1000-3000 because they can.  simple supply and demand.

 

 

so big takeaways = make sure you need the duct work being sold, and probably drop down an efficiency level or two, and go with Amer Standard over Trane for quality but some cost savings

[9 Nines]

2 minutes ago, chef said:

 

 

Some thoughts from my Dad:

 

* with attic duct work that may certainly drive up your costs, so hard for him to tell what % of total is that.  you get a breakdown?  he also said make sure you need it as opposed to make just a new flex duct here and there and minor vent work, and some companies will push it to pad bills

 

* mentioned as discussed that Trane and Amer Standard almost exactly same thing off same assembly line there in Tyler TX.  rec'd not going for max efficiency systems (you looking at 20, 21 SEER?) as those are often sold as something that will pay for themselves in energy savings but he mentioned it rarely if ever actually pays for itself over lifetime of today's units. which in reality is about 10-12, 15 at best.  also said it's pretty known that the max efficiency systems tend to have way way more reliability issues as currently configured.  he assumed any units you were looking at would run variable.

 

* endorsed the alum coil issue, saying Carrier had really been first way back but most moving to that now out of cross-contamination and related corrosion issues.  had heard of the Lennox issue you mentioned.

 

* did encourage you to bid around saying look for smaller shop, but mentioned that via consolation and buyouts, and retirement, not many like that left, and big houses always pushing for max profit not fair deal.  with that in mind combined with tech labor shortage, shipping issues, increased material costs, chip shortages, and likely high demand, your spots are probably just charging an extra $1000-3000 because they can.  simple supply and demand.

 

 

so big takeaways = make sure you need the duct work being sold, and probably drop down an efficiency level or two, and go with Amer Standard over Trane for quality but some cost savings

 

Thanks for checking.

 

Duct work is $1500,  $1000 for new system and $500 for the one remaining.  I requested it beforehand because the duct work is leaking.  Every few months, I pour diluted chlorine into the drain lines via a T-joint.  Last time was a few weeks ago, when even in the morning the attic was probably 110+.  I stepped over a duct accidently stub my foot on it.  I notice a faint but very cold stream came from the scuff.  I placed a cut square inch of adhesive pipe insulation on it, then placed duct tape over it (see really duct tape in this use haha) I then ran my hand over the duct and noticed more.   I patched about five before I could not take the heat any longer.  So there are pin hole leaks. 

I have a two stage system and I think I will stay there unless an installer can talk me into being comfortable with a variable one.   I like the idea of variable but I question its reliability.  As I understand it they have a monitoring system that checks outside temperature, humidity etc. at the compressor, compare it to indoor readings, and adjust the overall system accordingly.  I read reviews that that opens up problems, because if that monitoring system has bugs, or malfunctions, your system might not work at all or not run properly.  That was my instinct, so after I read it, I wrote off variable speed systems.   If do not mind, would you ask your father if he agrees or disagrees with that view?  

Also, I heard that two stage compressor can be combined with a variable speed air handler for some hybrid advantage but I do not understand how. 

Thanks again, and I would appreciate your father's view on the variable speeds systems causing or not causing another fault potential. 

[chef]

6 minutes ago, 9 Nines said:

 

Thanks for checking.

 

Duct work is $1500,  $1000 for new system and $500 for the one remaining.  I requested it beforehand because the duct work is leaking.  Every few months, I pour diluted chlorine into the drain lines via a T-joint.  Last time was a few weeks ago, when even in the morning the attic was probably 110+.  I stepped over a duct accidently stub my foot on it.  I notice a faint but very cold stream came from the scuff.  I placed a cut square inch of adhesive pipe insulation on it, then placed duct tape over it (see really duct tape in this use haha) I then ran my hand over the duct and noticed more.   I patched about five before I could not take the heat any longer.  So there are pin hole leaks. 

I have a two stage system and I think I will stay there unless an installer can talk me into being comfortable with a variable one.   I like the idea of variable but I question its reliability.  As I understand it they have a monitoring system that checks outside temperature, humidity etc. at the compressor, compare it to indoor readings, and adjust the overall system accordingly.  I read reviews that that opens up problems, because if that monitoring system has bugs, or malfunctions, your system might not work at all or not run properly.  That was my instinct, so after I read it, I wrote off variable speed systems.   If do not mind, would you ask your father if he agrees or disagrees with that view?  

Also, I heard that two stage compressor can be combined with a variable speed air handler for some hybrid advantage but I do not understand how. 

Thanks again, and I would appreciate your father's view on the variable speeds systems causing or not causing another fault potential. 

 

he wasn't sure two stage was an option still, thinking most high end units might have gone variable, but he really thought for best reliability, for now, avoid variable.  his neighbor just got new unit about 6 months ago and techs have already been back 4X.  

[chef]

and yes sounds like you need the duct work, and that's not outrageous considering labor today

[9 Nines]

15 minutes ago, chef said:

 

he wasn't sure two stage was an option still, thinking most high end units might have gone variable, but he really thought for best reliability, for now, avoid variable.  his neighbor just got new unit about 6 months ago and techs have already been back 4X.  

 

 

The American Standard Gold 17 is two staged.  It is high enough SEER it will get energy company rebates etc. probably but right before the big price jumps, 18+ SEER systems is when prices start going up a lot.   It also is the first higher SEER unit to get the 12 year warranty compressor. The 16 SEER and below have the 10 year warranty compressors.   So I suspect the Gold 17 will be the best value/quality one.