Now that Rang has ranked Howard #7...

[socaltitan]

10 minutes ago, japan said:

I seriously doubt we take Howard at 5 in a draft so deep at TE.

I'm kinda surprised. Some people still argue the value of a "RT" in Conklin being picked so high. Yet we're comfortable taking a TE at 5? I don't quite get that and I like Howard. Agreed I seriously doubt we take Howard.

[socaltitan]

12 minutes ago, siamesedinasour said:

I seriously question anyone who compares OJ Howard to Jared Cook primarily because I question anyone who says OJ Howard is anything less than a decent blocker. I realize Lance Zierlein said that on his NFL Draft profile, but he must have based that on his observations of his freshman year. Howard, if not elite, is a very good blocker and he has already improved tremendously in that area in his time at Bama.

Daniel Jeremiah said it best - he's the safest pick in the draft and has "no holes in his game." Or, that one of his best qualities is that he is a "quality run blocker". Read some of the recaps from the Senior Bowl. He stood out as a "man among boys" according to one. His blocking was praised in addition to his receiving. 

I think the NFL profile on him is horrible and must be based on old film. He's the best TE prospect in a long time and would be able to contribute in the passing game and the run game on day 1. Whether he's worth a 5 or not is a legit discussion, though.

I feel like he'd have to be Gronkowski level dominant to make me even consider it. I just don't see the value. Yes we use TE a lot and the value of TE has changed, but it still feels too rich to me.

[TitanDuckFan]

2 hours ago, Justafan said:

I agree with that on some level but twice the production from TE's?  Best case scenario here, you're talking about drafting a guy at #5 overall who will eventually be your starter but his first couple of years is a 20-25 catch a year guy.  That's best case.  Break that down over a year and your talking 1-2 catches a game.

You aren't putting him on the field and all of a sudden having two guys catching 60-90 catches a year.  That's ludicrous.  If Howard were to get more than 1-2 catches a game it would be because he was playing well enough to steal them from Walker. 

Like I said, I really like Howard and i'm by no means advocating against drafting him.  I think it's crazy talk at #5 overall though.

Yeah and I get that too.  I've said all along I thing JRob needs to go defense first.  But if he's decided that Cyp and Ryan are enough and decides to go offense early, name one other player that fits as well with what we know Mularkey wants to do?

We know he likes heavy sets.

We know he wants to be run-first.

We know he's not enamored with 4WR concepts.

We know a pass catching TE isn't enough, he wants them to be capable blockers.

We know that with Fasano and Sup at #2 TE we lacked YAC and elusiveness, and crisp routes.  They were playing simple-simon stuff.

 

So I think it comes down to how much faith he has in Sharpe.  Does MM believe Sharpe will improve enough to compete with Matthews on the outside, and how much emphasis does he place there.  I just don't see him deviating from exotic smashmouth.  He wants a big, tough physical offense more than finesse and pure speed.  So if Sharpe improves enough outside, he may opt for another marginal receiving TE in favor of a stellar blocker.  And continue to rely on Delanie and whomever in the slot, with enough Matthews and Sharpe to keep defenses honest.

But from what I can see, he can have it all in Howard at TE and McCaffrey in the slot.  Power, speed, and elusiveness, and disguise it by having players with real versatility that can line up anywhere and play any role.

[GLinks]

6 hours ago, Starkiller said:

What "facts" are you talking about? That Fasano was used primarily as a blocker? No shit. That has nothing to do with how they would use Howard if they draft him...

Mularkey will adjust his offense to fit the personnel he has on hand. When Delanie Walker was out did they try to use Fasano as the pass catching #1 TE in his offense? No. Why? Because Fasano isn't Walker. There is no set role for the #1 TE to be a pass catcher or #2 TE to be a blocker.

If they add Howard they will use Howard similarly to how they use Walker, as both a blocker and a receiver.

This is exactly what I see as well. Malarkey dreams in 2 and 3 TE sets. Howard is not Fasano, would not be used like him, and bet there is a vault in the playbook that has plenty of Gronkien/Hernandez-Bennett goodness without the murder.

The Titans to an extent wanna be New England on offense with a better running game, featuring Mariota as Baby Brady. Howard would get the best coaching here from a position perspective, and would be a key cog - something he was not so much to Saban at Alabama. I'm sure some of that negative perspective on his desire and play comes from that.

Also, he's got way better hands and concentration than Cook ever had, except that Michael Jackson toe dance he did this season for GB - that catch, which showed so much awareness and athleticism, is unfortunately the likely peak of his career. Gorgeous catch, though.

Anyway, Howard, I don't believe, is the same kind of guy that Jared Cook is or was. JRob will do his homework, while the past regime was enamored only with the surface with Cook. I trust JRob either way. He'll go as far as he reasonably can and make the best judgment call.

But in no way do I see Howard as the same guy as Cook or Fasano. That sounds pretty crazy to me. It's why they do interviews, schedule visits and go deep into character. Different players, different dudes. 

[tgo]

I've told people to pump the breaks on OJ Howard's blocking prowess, but in no way is he like Jared Cook. Howard is a far superior blocker to Cook.

[Sifublue]

1 hour ago, tgo said:

I've told people to pump the breaks on OJ Howard's blocking prowess, but in no way is he like Jared Cook. Howard is a far superior blocker to Cook.

Howard is a good almost great blocker FOR A COLLEGE TIGHT END.

Which means he'd probably get his shit run in the pros.

[Mythos27]

Howard doesn't have to be Gronk to be taken highly. Has anyone here actually seen what Greg Olsen does for that Carolina offense? Without him Cam wouldn't be shit. Most people compare Howard to Olsen and many of them consider him a superior prospect to Olsen. This isn't Jared Cook out there. I love Engram and wouldn't mind him on this team as a pure weapon but he's much closer to Cook than Howard. Engram just seems to have more consistent hands.

[bostontitan]

one thing they say this draft is loaded on Defense so that means they can waite to take guys later because so many good ones .

So if you want to get guys for offense get them first ..no matter who it is defense is loaded ...

[Marigoata8]

trade down to cleveland and snag him there

[socaltitan]

31 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Howard doesn't have to be Gronk to be taken highly. Has anyone here actually seen what Greg Olsen does for that Carolina offense? Without him Cam wouldn't be shit. Most people compare Howard to Olsen and many of them consider him a superior prospect to Olsen. This isn't Jared Cook out there. I love Engram and wouldn't mind him on this team as a pure weapon but he's much closer to Cook than Howard. Engram just seems to have more consistent hands.

That would be my expectation if you're taking a TE at #5. Greg Olsen is an excellent player. I wouldn't take him #5.

[Mythos27]

50 minutes ago, socaltitan said:

That would be my expectation if you're taking a TE at #5. Greg Olsen is an excellent player. I wouldn't take him #5.

Shit. I guess we just disagree then cause I would definitely take Olsen at #5. He impacts the game more than a lot of top 5-10 drafted receivers.

[siamesedinasour]

8 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Shit. I guess we just disagree then cause I would definitely take Olsen at #5. He impacts the game more than a lot of top 5-10 drafted receivers.

This is an interesting discussion about Howard at 5. I think there's the potential for Howard to affect our offense on more plays than anyone else in this draft because of his potential contributions both in the passing game and in the run game. That's rare for a TE because so often, the elite TEs are primarily receivers.

[Mythos27]

Just now, siamesedinasour said:

This is an interesting discussion about Howard at 5. I think there's the potential for Howard to affect our offense on more plays than anyone else in this draft because of his potential contributions both in the passing game and in the run game. That's rare for a TE because so often, the elite TEs are primarily receivers.

I'm not really in the camp that wants Howard at 5. But it's not because I think he doesn't have top 5 ability, I just think there are guys who are just as good of prospects but play positions more valuable to us. I take him anywhere between 10 and 18 in a heartbeat though.

[siamesedinasour]

2 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I'm not really in the camp that wants Howard at 5. But it's not because I think he doesn't have top 5 ability, I just think there are guys who are just as good of prospects but play positions more valuable to us. I take him anywhere between 10 and 18 in a heartbeat though.

I'm not really either, but I'm coming that way because I have to defend him from people that say that he's Jared Cook or that he's a horrible receiver because of his lack of stats.

Edit: or from people who say that Evan Engram is a better prospect.

[Mythos27]

2 minutes ago, siamesedinasour said:

I'm not really either, but I'm coming that way because I have to defend him from people that say that he's Jared Cook or that he's a horrible receiver because of his lack of stats.

Edit: or from people who say that Evan Engram is a better prospect.

Yeah, I hate that defending a player/prospect from what you feel are unfair characterizations usually ends up making you look like a rabid fanboy or more bullish on him than you actually are. Same goes for questioning a player but obviously you tend to get accused of the opposite.