Face Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I know, not another VY thread. But there's nothing else going on football wise & since he made his huge retirement announcement I was just thinking about him. The ups & mostly downs of this guy's career really are amazing but that fateful day in November completely changed the course of his career. Had VY not injured his finger & subsequently melted down on Fisher I'm completely convinced the year would have ended with Bud extending him. I've ripped VY left & right but the truth is he was playing well in 2010 & had an extended stretch of good football from mid '09 up until this point. Kenny Britt, who was absolutely dominant at the time, came back a week or two later & VY most likely would've ended the year strong. The offense got healthy the last 4-5 weeks of the year & KC was really playing well, despite a shredded finger & weakening arm. VY was better than KC at this point & if he even matched KC's production the last month I'm sure he would've been our QB in 2011. The truth is, though many don't want to hear it, is that Fisher & Dinger really did a great job with VY & he looked like a starting QB at the time. He really developed a beautiful deep ball. It's just difficult to comprehend how stupid, emotional, and immature he was to melt down like that. All he really had to do was keep his mouth shut & Bud would have extended him. I still think Fisher would have left with Munch replacing him, though I think if Dinger hadn't gotten sick he'd be the guy. Makes you wonder, would we have taken Robert Quinn or JJ Watt if VY was brought back? Who knows how things would turn out but that day definitely changed the course of a few guys careers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 He probably blames Fisher for the whole thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number9 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I think @Face has put together a very decent assessment of the situation. The reason it was so bad for VY is he did not have the mental capacity to learn another offense, especially with his dedication level. I think Fish did a fair job with him, but Fish made it know from the beginning VY was not his choice. Imagine if Jake started his rookie season with Munchak making it known he did not really want him at QB. Then all the infighting between the two was past ridiculous. Letting Kerry stay out there during the 0-6 start was not in the best interest of the team. People can love Jeff all the like, but that was just wrong. I always wanted VY to go to Arizona. Denny Green was out there then and I figured he would get the most out of Vince. Vince had some talent, but his lack of intellect/dedication was going to make it difficult for any coach. Anyway, it's over and done now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanruss Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 he's said multiple times since that day was a mistake and he never should have yelled at his coach or challenged him. in fact, he said it when interviewed immediately after his "retirement" announcement. I don't blame VY for going off as most people would probably have done if they showed value to the organization but one guy made your life hell... they guy whose job you saved multiple times. i have zero doubts that fisher was trying to find reasons to get rid of the VY from day one and that fisher "punished" and IR'ed VY regardless of his injury recovery time that game. however, VY could have avoided all of this if he came in and worked hard from day one and didnt act like a premadonna. Also, Fisher would still be the coach here, VY would be the QB, and we would have made the playoffs a couple more times if fisher had accepted VY's hard work paying off from 2009 and 2010 instead of still trying to get rid of him. He probably blames Fisher for the whole thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I've actually posted it before, he was a few games away from Bud extending him. In fact Bud would have still extended him if the front office didn't beg Bud to get rid of him. Of course it doesn't matter, he'd still be broke and out of the league Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number9 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 So if VY completely went out of character, became a hard worker and a team guy and actually was teachable he could have avoided his demise. I guess so and if pigs fly a bunch of other stuff would be different. VY had a bad attitude from day one. Physically he was gifted. Mentally he was a retard. Don't forget he sat on the sidelines all of 2008 when the team had a legit chance at a SB run because he "screwed up". Now all that aside we can't forget that VY could have learned from his misgivings with the Titans and gone to Philly or some other place and showed off his greatness. Problem is every team he went to after the Titans saw what an ass he was and how bad of a QB he was. This wasn't Drew Brees making a coach mad. This was a real turd with minimal talent and a 10 cent brain. Sox, the point is that Jeff was pissed at VY before he ever took a snap. Every thing you say is true about VY, it just could have been handled better by everybody involved. At that time, QBs were getting huge contracts. He was the most expensive asset on the team. It was just messed up for him and Fisher to be paired together. The Titans paid the price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Honestly, I don't know how a coach could have handled and hidden VY any better than The Fisher did. I'm talking Coach of the Century type stuff here. I'm being totally serious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I think @Face has put together a very decent assessment of the situation. The reason it was so bad for VY is he did not have the mental capacity to learn another offense, especially with his dedication level. I think Fish did a fair job with him, but Fish made it know from the beginning VY was not his choice. Imagine if Jake started his rookie season with Munchak making it known he did not really want him at QB. Then all the infighting between the two was past ridiculous. Letting Kerry stay out there during the 0-6 start was not in the best interest of the team. People can love Jeff all the like, but that was just wrong. I always wanted VY to go to Arizona. Denny Green was out there then and I figured he would get the most out of Vince. Vince had some talent, but his lack of intellect/dedication was going to make it difficult for any coach. Anyway, it's over and done now. 9, you're correct about him lacking mental capacity & if you look back on his career you can clearly see how that was the root of all of his problems. I believe his meltdown in '08 resulted from frustration with his inability to grasp Dinger's offense. Up until that point Chow had given him a simple one read & take off offense, which worked to an extent but of course he'd need to start running an offense with NFL level complexity to take the next step. He simply could not handle it & needed way more than just one offseason to get it, I think he came into camp with a bad attitude because he was dreading the playbook. You take that & couple it with a brutal Jax defense on Opening Day & you get meltdown city. His lack of intelligence haunted him throughout his career & it really played a factor in his post-Titans career. A lot of people, understandably, couldn't understand how VY couldn't win a backup job when he played pretty well as a starter in '09-'10. The answer is that he just couldn't learn the offense quick enough, a backup needs to be smart enough to learn an offense in one offseason (which isn't that difficult) & he may have to learn a few of them over the course of a few years, whether its a new coach or signing with a new team. VY just couldn't do this. He was either going to be a starter or out of the league. Once he learned Dinger's offense (though I'm sure it was watered down) he actually played pretty well, but he needed to be with one HC & offensive system year in & year out, which he could've had with Fish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I think @Face has put together a very decent assessment of the situation. The reason it was so bad for VY is he did not have the mental capacity to learn another offense, especially with his dedication level. I think Fish did a fair job with him, but Fish made it know from the beginning VY was not his choice. Imagine if Jake started his rookie season with Munchak making it known he did not really want him at QB. Then all the infighting between the two was past ridiculous. Letting Kerry stay out there during the 0-6 start was not in the best interest of the team. People can love Jeff all the like, but that was just wrong. I always wanted VY to go to Arizona. Denny Green was out there then and I figured he would get the most out of Vince. Vince had some talent, but his lack of intellect/dedication was going to make it difficult for any coach. Anyway, it's over and done now. 9, you're correct about him lacking mental capacity & if you look back on his career you can clearly see how that was the root of all of his problems. I believe his meltdown in '08 resulted from frustration with his inability to grasp Dinger's offense. Up until that point Chow had given him a simple one read & take off offense, which worked to an extent but of course he'd need to start running an offense with NFL level complexity to take the next step. He simply could not handle it & needed way more than just one offseason to get it, I think he came into camp with a bad attitude because he was dreading the playbook. You take that & couple it with a brutal Jax defense on Opening Day & you get meltdown city. His lack of intelligence haunted him throughout his career & it really played a factor in his post-Titans career. A lot of people, understandably, couldn't understand how VY couldn't win a backup job when he played pretty well as a starter in '09-'10. The answer is that he just couldn't learn the offense quick enough, a backup needs to be smart enough to learn an offense in one offseason (which isn't that difficult) & he may have to learn a few of them over the course of a few years, whether its a new coach or signing with a new team. VY just couldn't do this. He was either going to be a starter or out of the league. Once he learned Dinger's offense (though I'm sure it was watered down) he actually played pretty well, but he needed to be with one HC & offensive system year in & year out, which he could've had with Fish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Honestly, I don't know how a coach could have handled and hidden VY any better than The Fisher did. I'm talking Coach of the Century type stuff here. I'm being totally serious. I know. I'm sure he realizes it now but Fisher was the best HC he could possibly play for. Fish was incredibly patient, loyal almost to a fault, and as media savvy as it gets. He & Dinger did a great job developing him, he had the 2nd best QB rating in the AFC in 2010 which is astounding, especially when you account for the other QB's in the AFC. I always loved when fans would say Fish was sabatoging VY. It was the complete opposite, he went out of his way to protect VY. The way Fisher handled the '08 meltdown should be studied in college PR classes, he was decisive in naming KC the starter going forward while not ostracizing VY. Pretty much any other coach would have been done with him at this point, and if not they certainly would be after his childish antics on the sidelines as the backup the rest of the way. Also, everyone who was screaming that he stuck with KC too long in '09 just wasn't grasping the delicacy of the situation. KC was extremely well respected by the team & just led them to a 13-3 season after VY basically committed the football version of suicide in asking out of a game, not to mention it was the 2nd time in a row since he also did it in the playoff game the year before. He couldn't just turn around & bench KC for a few bad games, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Honestly, I don't know how a coach could have handled and hidden VY any better than The Fisher did. I'm talking Coach of the Century type stuff here. I'm being totally serious. Exactly. If Fisher is guilty of anything its coddling VY for far too long. Titansruss post is comical. I didn't realize anyone still believed that crap about Fisher. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Yea, he could have been handled the same way Andy Reid handled him. Or how he was handled in GB or Buffalo. There is not one sliver of evidence that Fisher and Dinger did anything but a super job with this nut case. He was a complete failure any other place he went. My God he was released from GB after getting beat out by B.J. Coleman. The Bills released him and used a draft pick to obtain Travaris Jackson. He was released from the Browns before they drafted Manziel and signed Connor Shaw. He was essentially beat out by Tyler Thigpen. The guy isn't even good enough to beat out an undrafted FA before the UDFA guy is even signed. Yes, Connor Shaw is a better option. Bottom line is VY sucks. I remember everyone used to say "I'd love to see what VY would do with Gruden!!!", lol. Besides the fact that Gruden is overrated he destroyed a bunch of young QB's, he'd reduce VY to quivering, crying sack of shit. And like you said, Andy Reid had one year with him & that was plenty. People just don't realize how patient Fisher was with him, a guy like Andy Reid is giving you one chance to run his offense as is, if you don't do it, you're done. As much as I love to crush VY though there's no way guys like BJ Coleman & Tyler Thigpen were better than him. The problem for VY as a backup is that coaches just don't want to spend an extra second teaching their backup an offense & they want them to run the playbook exactly as is & VY just wasn't going to fit that. He's a starter or bust. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Exactly. If Fisher is guilty of anything its coddling VY for far too long. Titansruss post is comical. I didn't realize anyone still believed that crap about Fisher. I'm surprised Fisher didn't move on after VY asked out of the SD playoff game. I don't know if thats been confirmed or is just a rumor, but if it's true you'd really have to think about cutting the cord right there. In fact, there's a good chance they win the game if KC played, that was a very, very winnable game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'm surprised Fisher didn't move on after VY asked out of the SD playoff game. I don't know if thats been confirmed or is just a rumor, but if it's true you'd really have to think about cutting the cord right there. In fact, there's a good chance they win the game if KC played, that was a very, very winnable game. Nah. The Titans were not as good as the Chargers that year. It was a loss regardless. You could see in the 4th quarter the Chargers were physically dominating the Titans. And I don't really think Fisher had a choice unless he wanted to quit. Bud Adams was never letting Fisher move on from Young at that point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I don't think VY is that dumb. Yeah, he's not being recruited for any think tank action now that the NFL is behind him but really, he could learn a playbook. He's too damn lazy. He's too damn entitled. He's a total piece of shit with a ton of talent. Dumb? Hell yeah. Too dumb to learn as much as my hero Steve McNair did? Hell no. He has no heart. He's a puss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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