big2033 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 hour ago, rns90 said: He has to play better though, independent of those playoff matchups . He can't be throwing game ending INT again for the 3rd straight game. We've seen him play better in the regular season . It just has to carry over into the playoffs. I don't think Tannehill played all that horribly or that differently in the playoffs. Teams and defenses just play harder when all the chips are on the line. So if you have issues it'll show in the playoffs. That's it. We've had issues. And they're not going to be solved because AJB and Henry are back in the lineup. They'll take those away and force Tannehill in certain situations. I don't care how much offensive talent he has. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rns90 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 18 minutes ago, Titans279 said: I’ve kind of changed my thinking on Tannehill. Not sure where this puts me in the battle of narratives, but this just seems true to me. I think the playoff Tannehill is the same Tannehill we see in the regular season. He didn’t play markedly worse than you’d expect him to play. He just got particularly unlucky against the Bengals. The second two INTs were not really all his fault, at least per Kurt Warner. One was the result of poor play design/calling since they knew what was coming on the attempted screen, and the other also poor play design and/or poor route running by the WR. Tannehill did have some missed throws and bad plays to be sure, but he does from time to time. It’s just magnified because of the stage and the setting. Obviously, Kurt is probably going to be a little biased toward the QB, but it’s probably not the case that Tannehill made 3 horrible decisions or throws on those INTs Overall, Tannehill does lock on to receivers sometimes. He does make aggressive throws into tight windows. He has the raw arm talent to get away with it a lot of the time and it can really pay off. Other times he’ll get unlucky and the DB notices he’s locked on and can pick it. Sometimes he throws in a tight window and the WR (often a scrub running a poorly designed route concept, poorly) can’t come down with the ball or it’s intercepted. I think Tannehill can be a great system QB. He has the arm talent and if things are really solid around him he’s going to look good. He’s not a true franchise QB you build around in the “Tier 1” sense, but you trust him to execute your offense. I think he’s top of tier 2. I think he’s better than someone like Jared Goff or Alex Smith because Tannehill has the raw arm talent to execute a well designed offense surrounded with talented players. I don’t think he’d create the the same limitations as they did. I honestly think if he was on the Rams offense they could still make the Super Bowl. The problem is we don’t have the Rams offensive coaches or the Rams offensive talent! This is fair and I can agree with. Point is you can win a Super Bowl with him and he isn't someone where you have to hide the qb and limit the offense with. And there are only maybe a few guys in Tier 1 anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rns90 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, big2033 said: We've had issues. And they're not going to be solved because AJB and Henry are back in the lineup. They'll take those away and force Tannehill in certain situations. I don't care how much offensive talent he has. Man we always go through this. He had a lot less talent in this game, especially with no TE and a dinged up Julio at the end. Yes, the amount of talent at hand does matter a bit here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Jamalisms said: I don't fully agree but this is pretty reasonable. Thanks. I think having the time to digest everything made me come to this realization. It's actually pretty consistent with my past thoughts on Tannehill. He's good, but not great (i.e. not "elite"). You could upgrade him with a handful of guys in the league, but they're not really attainable. I think that a lot of us naturally feel like we should dramatically shift our perception off Tannehill based on the game since it was such a heart breaking loss, but does that really make sense? To be clear, I don't think you did really, but I don't think people should totally do an about face just because of this game. It's just not the complete meltdown that it seems like from the stat sheet or from the pain of the loss. Tannehill is Tannehill. It's like Vrabel said, "we have to be great around him." That's not necessarily a massive dig! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big2033 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, rns90 said: Man we always go through this. He had a lot less talent in this game, especially with no TE and a dinged up Julio at the end. Yes, the amount of talent at hand does matter a bit here. He didn't last year or the year before. We still played a certain way when it mattered. And teams still geared themselves to take away one element and force us out of our comfort zone and it worked. Tannehill had the most yardage - 220 - in the playoffs this year as a Titan. Let that sink in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big2033 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 We can have an all-star group of weapons we're still going to throw it 20-25 times at a 60% clip in the playoffs and beyond. And it likely won't work in the playoffs. We'll have to get lucky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rns90 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 minute ago, big2033 said: He didn't last year or the year before. We still played a certain way when it mattered. And teams still geared themselves to take away one element and force us out of our comfort zone and it worked. Tannehill had the most yardage - 220 - in the playoffs as a Titan. Let that sink in. you always focus on bulk yardage when that's not the best indicator.. its efficiency that matters in this offense. If you assume that they will run it regardless an X number of times, then the yardage totals are never going to be as high as you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big2033 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, rns90 said: you always focus on bulk yardage when that's not the best indicator.. its efficiency that matters in this offense. If you assume that they will run it regardless an X number of times, then the yardage totals are never going to be as high as you want. It's better to be efficient yes. Less reps breeds less mistakes. But that's not always possible. At some point, volume passing will have to fill in the blanks. It's obvious no matter what, we don't want to do that. It's easier to be efficient when you're running successfully. Teams will take that element away first to put pressure on our efficiency. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, Titans279 said: Thanks. I think having the time to digest everything made me come to this realization. It's actually pretty consistent with my past thoughts on Tannehill. He's good, but not great (i.e. not "elite"). You could upgrade him with a handful of guys in the league, but they're not really attainable. I think that a lot of us naturally feel like we should dramatically shift our perception off Tannehill based on the game since it was such a heart breaking loss, but does that really make sense? To be clear, I don't think you did really, but I don't think people should totally do an about face just because of this game. It's just not the complete meltdown that it seems like from the stat sheet or from the pain of the loss. Tannehill is Tannehill. It's like Vrabel said, "we have to be great around him." That's not necessarily a massive dig! I actually do view him as lesser than I did, but only to a degree. I still think you can win a SB with him but my hopes of enough going right around him and / or him getting hot for long enough at the right time have come down considerably and I think it's important that the team look to his replacement before it's needed ... which means start working on it yesterday. Without committing to an in-depth argument, because I have no interest, you can't look at his statistical decline from 2019 to 2020 to 2021 without at least wondering at his age in a worrisome way. The decline can hit hard and fast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rns90 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 minute ago, big2033 said: It's obvious no matter what, we don't want to do that. You don't know this and are projecting your bias' onto that again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big2033 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, rns90 said: You don't know this and are projecting your bias' onto that again. LOL ... do I 100% know this? No. Of course not. Anything is possible. But if you look at the odds on why we do what we do I think they'd be in my favor. You guys keep fishing for every other reason besides the obvious one. Teams will gear up to stop our run in the playoffs and make Tannehill beat them. He has to step up as a volume passer. But I don't think our coaches like our chances in that situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliTitan3518 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 5 hours ago, AJClown said: ... and what makes you think Rodgers wants to be back in GB?!..... What does it matter? He is under contract. At this point he either plays for GB or retires. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rns90 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 58 minutes ago, Jamalisms said: Without committing to an in-depth argument, because I have no interest, you can't look at his statistical decline from 2019 to 2020 to 2021 without at least wondering at his age in a worrisome way. The decline can hit hard and fast. His arm looked fine to me. Just going by the eye test, there weren't that many throws that weren't made because he lacked arm strength. Most of the INT if you want to look at that is bad decision making by Tannehill or just the practice squad WR (Fitzpatrick, NWI etc) not being in position. Those two things have nothing to do with age. I mean you can usually tell if it is age. The ball just doesn't get there and it's obviously the qb's fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, rns90 said: His arm looked fine to me. Just going by the eye test, there weren't that many throws that weren't made because he lacked arm strength. Most of the INT if you want to look at that is bad decision making by Tannehill or just the practice squad WR (Fitzpatrick, NWI etc) not being in position. Those two things have nothing to do with age. I mean you can usually tell if it is age. The ball just doesn't get there and it's obviously the qb's fault. Yeah, I don’t see his worse play this year as due to age. Probably mostly due to lack of continuity around him (injuries), new OC, but I think some of it could be teams figuring out his/the offenses tendencies better. I remember Ramsey saying he knew he’d get a pick if they ran a certain route, and he did. That one seemed more bd use of Tannehill’s tendencies. Same thing happened with the Bengals being able to predict our offense. One was the offense being too predictable, the other was maybe both? They seemed to know who Tannehill would throw to and he just locked on to the WR. So I just think the problems aren’t age, but they still might be issues that aren’t solved next year unless they address the offense. I don’t think Tannehill’s going to get better at not locking on to guys or looking off safeties at this point in his career, but the offense can be better designed and called better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rns90 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Titans279 said: Yeah, I don’t see his worse play this year as due to age. Probably mostly due to lack of continuity around him (injuries), new OC, but I think some of it could be teams figuring out his/the offenses tendencies better. I remember Ramsey saying he knew he’d get a pick if they ran a certain route, and he did. That one seemed more bd use of Tannehill’s tendencies. Same thing happened with the Bengals being able to predict our offense. One was the offense being too predictable, the other was maybe both? They seemed to know who Tannehill would throw to and he just locked on to the WR. So I just think the problems aren’t age, but they still might be issues that aren’t solved next year unless they address the offense. I don’t think Tannehill’s going to get better at not locking on to guys or looking off safeties at this point in his career, but the offense can be better designed and called better. Yeah, it's basically a combo (at least this year) of bad play design + bad personnel at the offensive skill positions. At this point, we expect some INT from Tannehill where he totally doesn't see a defender or locks onto a WR. I guess by improving the offensive talent and diversifying the plays you can limit the impact of those. I'm at the point where Tannehill is what he is: you can win a superbowl with him, he's a top 15 qb and he has to show up in the playoffs and play well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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