BudsOilers Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, BudsOilers said: Seattle is also way further along in their window of contention than Robinson is. They basically have been SB or bust since 2014 when the first batch of core players started going on 2nd contracts. Not to say they have not made mistakes - they absolutely have over the years. I hated the Wagner extension in 2020 and the Adams trade. Stupid use of resources IMO. But they are a playoff team every year without a down period between core players. They might be done this year though with Wilson out for a while. What I will say is that Robinson's experience in that phase is pretty limited to 2019 onward and it's a story that still needs be told. To me, he's had some alarming misses the last two years that raise concerns but his hits (Tannehill, Henry, AJB, etc.) still have them contending. I'd add that where Schneider generally has done a good job is in accumulating picks by trading out of the late 1st. I hope that's something Robinson starts doing in this phase as it's imperative that the team have guys under the 1st contract wage scales to fill out depth/ST and develop if you have a star core on 2nd contracts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, BudsOilers said: Then the GM misread the league board and fucked up. It happens all of the time but we don't hear about it. Now, you also hear other teams claim they loved player so and so if they passed on some great player. Expecting any team to be 100% correct on this is unrealistic. It's like a massive poker game among these guys and their sources..... No one expects a 100% hit rate or even a 75% hit rate. thats a strawman @tgo and others use because some of us don't agree Jrob is a top 5 GM. I don't know anyone that thinks jrob is a bad GM. I think most agree he's a good GM with room to grow who has to be better in the 1st round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, oldschool said: For starters not meddling on offense and forcing his OCs to run so much on 1st down. Did you the see the charts I posted in the Chiefs week thread? Its almost criminal and may offset all the good things Vrabel is good at like game management. They run too much on first down. I agree with you there. I think that’s an organizational thing because of Henry. But there’s there things that Vrabel does that you won’t get with other coaches. Like taking 12 men on the field penalties to give them more time to stop the opponent late. Or the example I pointed out the other night with knowing the Bills’ tendencies on QB sneaks. And it seems like the players love him and would run through a wall for him. At least we’ve never heard otherwise. And it’s been three and a half years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctm Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, scine09 said: I really want to know what it'll take from the Vrabel detractors to get them on board. 2016 9-7 2017 9-7 (lost division playoff) Vrabel hired 2018 9-7 2019 9-7 (lost conf.) 2020 11-5 (lost wild card) 2021 4-2: The answer is results, that's the nature of the business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 minute ago, ctm said: 2016 9-7 2017 9-7 (lost division playoff) Vrabel hired 2018 9-7 2019 9-7 (lost conf.) 2020 11-5 (lost wild card) 2021 4-2: The answer is results, that's the nature of the business. They went 11-5 last year, won the division, following a championship game appearance, and some people wanted him gone or tried to act like he was on the hot seat this year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, scine09 said: Of course happens all the time. The Patriots and Seahawks are just lucky it didn’t happen to them. And for all we know there were teams about to take one or both players and just missed. So by that rationale, picking any great player is luck and any bad player is because you were unlucky? No. Bill Walsh wasn't just lucky in drafting Joe Montana in the 3rd round either. Was Bum Phillips lucky that TB was willing to trade the #1 overall pick in 78 so he could draft Campbell? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctm Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, scine09 said: They went 11-5 last year, won the division, following a championship game appearance, and some people wanted him gone or tried to act like he was on the hot seat this year! When you look at the records, 2020 looks like an outlier, but let 2021 play out. Regarding 2020, how do you explain the historically bad defense? Is that on Vrabel for his coaching or JRob for his personnel decisions? It goes without saying that when the defense is that bad, somebody had to screw up somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, BudsOilers said: So by that rationale, picking any great player is luck and any bad player is because you were unlucky? No. Bill Walsh wasn't just lucky in drafting Joe Montana in the 3rd round either. Was Bum Phillips lucky that TB was willing to trade the #1 overall pick in 78 so he could draft Campbell? A ton of it is luck, yes. In the draft specifically. When you draft a great player whomever the GM is deserves all the credit in the world. But he’s also lucky that someone didn’t take that player unless he was the number one player in the draft. I’m not trying to take anything away from any of these GMs. The only reason I bring this up is because of not giving full credit to Robinson for bringing in Tannehill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, oldschool said: No one expects a 100% hit rate or even a 75% hit rate. thats a strawman @tgo and others use because some of us don't agree Jrob is a top 5 GM. I don't know anyone that thinks jrob is a bad GM. I think most agree he's a good GM with room to grow who has to be better in the 1st round. Agreed. I think the top 5 thing is ridiculous and largely subjective given all of the factors at play. I don't really understand the need for validation by those folks. Robinson is a good GM with strengths and weaknesses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, ctm said: When you look at the records, 2020 looks like an outlier, but let 2021 play out. Regarding 2020, how do you explain the historically bad defense? Is that on Vrabel for his coaching or JRob for his personnel decisions? It’s been three years. Where do you see it as an outlier? He won two more games last year than the other two. Not ten. I have no idea who to blame for the D last year. It happened and hopefully it’s better this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, scine09 said: A ton of it is luck, yes. In the draft specifically. When you draft a great player whomever the GM is deserves all the credit in the world. But he’s also lucky that someone didn’t take that player unless he was the number one player in the draft. I’m not trying to take anything away from any of these GMs. The only reason I bring this up is because of not giving full credit to Robinson for bringing in Tannehill. Well in the draft, the team decides who they pick. In the case of Tannehill, he had a starter's contract and some control on where he'd be willing to go in order to modify it to facilitate a trade (doing Miami a solid). He and his agent specifically targeted the Titans as a team they wanted to go to because of the potential opportunity. Otherwise, he could have said no and forced the Dolphins to cut him. If you don't see the difference in the two situations in terms of credit distribution, not more I can say on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, BudsOilers said: Well in the draft, the team decides who they pick. In the case of Tannehill, he had a starter's contract and some control on where he'd be willing to go in order to modify it to facilitate a trade (doing Miami a solid). He and his agent specifically targeted the Titans as a team they wanted to go to because of the potential opportunity. Otherwise, he could have said no and forced the Dolphins to cut him. If you don't see the difference in the two situations in terms of credit distribution, not more I can say on it. All I’m saying is Robinson made the move just like any GM who is drafting. Robinson didn’t have to do it. He did it and deserves all the credit in the world for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctm Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, scine09 said: It’s been three years. Where do you see it as an outlier? He won two more games last year than the other two. Not ten. I have no idea who to blame for the D last year. It happened and hopefully it’s better this year. They also took a step back in the playoffs in 2020 and had a historically bad defense. Thus the outlier comment. And the bad defense in 2020 is absolutely relevant to evaluating Vrabel and/or JRob. You just can't be historically bad without someone making some serious mistakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, ctm said: 2016 9-7 2017 9-7 (lost division playoff) Vrabel hired 2018 9-7 2019 9-7 (lost conf.) 2020 11-5 (lost wild card) 2021 4-2: The answer is results, that's the nature of the business. It's a good problem to have but expectations are higher now. When Vrabel came in, Robinson and he both said that making a divisional round in the playoffs is not good enough. Good to Great. It's about championships. As it should be. After 2019's run to the AFCC, the expectation was taking the next step fair or not. And while yes they won their division, the end result of a first round loss was a step back in the grand scheme. If your team's goal is a SB win, anything less is failure. Now where fans go crazy is that too many think their team is so much better than everyone else so they should never lose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, scine09 said: All I’m saying is Robinson made the move just like any GM who is drafting. Robinson didn’t have to do it. He did it and deserves all the credit in the world for it. If you want to have an unbelievably low bar of analysis, feel free, It does crack me up that you can cling to luck on drafting and have this view on a trade with this type of context. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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