Ruston Webster's Legacy on the Current Team

[tgo]

3 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Webster was an awful GM. I believe he’s back to being a scout if I’m not mistaken. He had zero plan to put the team together and seemingly drafted at whim. He took non-athletic RBs (opposite of what you do) and stupid WRs who were athletes (also not what you do). He drafted Poutasi as a RT, which got Mett murdered in several games. Our CBs were awful. As a matter of fact I can’t think of a single strong unit under his watch. The premise of this article is beyond stupid. 

 

Tgo is still one of my favorite guys around here though. He knew he would catch shit and still posted it. I appreciate that. 

Well, I don't think the premise of PK's article is stupid. Maybe a little premature as others have said. But I certainly agree now that Webster overall was a bad GM. 

 

As I've said many times over the last few years, Webster did draft and acquire a few good, foundational type players. But every overall position group was absolutely terrible under his watch and depth was beyond putrid. And Zero vision for how to build a team, as has been discussed ad nauseum. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

5 minutes ago, tgo said:

Well, I don't think the premise of PK's article is stupid. Maybe a little premature as others have said. But I certainly agree now that Webster overall was a bad GM. 

 

As I've said many times over the last few years, Webster did draft and acquire a few good, foundational type players. But every overall position group was absolutely terrible under his watch and depth was beyond putrid. And Zero vision for how to build a team, as has been discussed ad nauseum. 

It’s pretty stupid. Lewan was the 3rd tackle taken in the draft. He lucked out. Mariota isn’t a franchise QB. Walker is the crowning jewel, as is Orakpo, who ended up a better run defender than pass rusher. So in four years an LT, a TE, and an edge setting OLB. The article is garbage. 

 

ETA: it’s ridiculous to say Webster has an imprint on this team. He really doesn’t. His QB choice is likely out the door, his OLB is gone, and his TE is likely gone after the year. By next year the odds are he will have one player left from four years of drafting. It’s clickbait. It’s also why I don’t like PK. He’s sneaky with his clickbait. 

[japan]

So, he drafted one 'great player' (got a second contract) in the first round in 4 drafts?  PK must have been smoking something when he decided to write that article...

[tgo]

Just now, IsntLifeFunny said:

It’s pretty stupid. Lewan was the 3rd tackle taken in the draft. He lucked out. Mariota isn’t a franchise QB. Walker is the crowning jewel, as is Orakpo, who ended up a better run defender than pass rusher. So in four years an LT, a TE, and an edge setting OLB. The article is garbage. 

Woodyard too. And when you look at what we had at pass rusher prior to Orakpo, it was very bad. 

 

He made an unconventional move that most disagreed with drafting Lewan when we already had Roos at LT, because of his experience not having a LT in Seattle - which proved to be wise and absolutely the best possible move,  and set the foundation for Robinson to build on. There is no disputing this. And the main reason why Lewan was ranked lower and drafted lower was due to the off field concerns. There's also no disputing that players like Walker, Orakpo, Woodyard, re-signing Morgan, and drafting Lewan changed the culture of the franchise back into a winning culture.

[IsntLifeFunny]

1 minute ago, tgo said:

Woodyard too. And when you look at what we had at pass rusher prior to Orakpo, it was very bad. 

 

He made an unconventional move that most disagreed with drafting Lewan when we already had Roos at LT, because of his experience not having a LT in Seattle - which proved to be wise and absolutely the best possible move,  and set the foundation for Robinson to build on. There is no disputing this. And the main reason why Lewan was ranked lower and drafted lower was due to the off field concerns. There's also no disputing that players like Walker, Orakpo, Woodyard, re-signing Morgan, and drafting Lewan changed the culture of the franchise back into a winning culture.

I disagree. I think Mularkey changed the culture. The players you mentioned besides Lewan and Walker are slightly above replacement players, especially when looking at their contracts. 

[tgo]

7 minutes ago, japan said:

So, he drafted one 'great player' (got a second contract) in the first round in 4 drafts?  PK must have been smoking something when he decided to write that article...

Maybe Kuharsky is just an objective observer that's capable of nuance beyond just "Webster totally sucked and everything he did was absolute garbage" and the agenda driven commentary behind that line of thinking. 

 

It's possible to think that Webster was a truly bad GM while also discussing the few positive moves that he made. This concept is known as nuanced reasoning, something that many posters around here regularly struggle with. 

 

Maybe it's just that people are equating the article to Webster being better than Robinson and conflating the issue and just disagree with that false premise?

[IsntLifeFunny]

I think Robinson was also a big part of that culture change, but it started with Mularkey being a hard nosed asshole who expected a lot out of a team with little talent and a frail QB. 

[tgo]

Just now, IsntLifeFunny said:

I disagree. I think Mularkey changed the culture. The players you mentioned besides Lewan and Walker are slightly above replacement players, especially when looking at their contracts. 

Mularkey certainly did change the culture, but he wouldn't have been able to do it very easily without the right types of players. I'd add Ben Jones as a major contributor to the culture change, even beyond all the others outside of maybe Woodyard. But that of course was post-Webster. 

[tgo]

Just now, IsntLifeFunny said:

I think Robinson was also a big part of that culture change, but it started with Mularkey being a hard nosed asshole who expected a lot out of a team with little talent and a frail QB. 

It was more about Mularkey preaching unity, family, brotherhood, off field camaraderie, always sticking together no matter what, and caring about the players as people than just his "hard nosed asshole" persona. Whisenhunt was a hard nosed asshole as a person and had the whole organization hating him and walking on egg shells (even if his offensive style was more finesse). 

[IsntLifeFunny]

1 minute ago, tgo said:

 

Maybe Kuharsky is just an objective observer that's capable of nuance beyond just "Webster totally sucked and everything he did was absolute garbage" and the agenda driven commentary behind that line of thinking. 

 

It's possible to think that Webster was a truly bad GM while also discussing the few positive moves that he made. This concept is known as nuanced reasoning, something that many posters around here regularly struggle with. 

 

Maybe it's just that people are equating the article to Webster being better than Robinson and conflating the issue and just disagree with that false premise?

Naw. We all know the positives. Walker was a great signing. The nuance of how he brought in Lewan when we had Roos was a great draft pick. Other than that it’s mediocre at best. Woodyard has been up and down but has been very good at times. I love the guy, one of my favorite players. But to name a LB signing who hasn’t hit a probowl as some major boon to our current team is faulty. Brown is obviously the better LB drafted in the 5th round. Who made more of a difference on our team last year? Brown. It isn’t arguable. That’s the point being made. Webster doesn’t really have any imprint on our team besides Lewan and Mariota. Walker is likely done and Woodyard is a backup to Brown. 

[tgo]

6 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Naw. We all know the positives. Walker was a great signing. The nuance of how he brought in Lewan when we had Roos was a great draft pick. Other than that it’s mediocre at best. Woodyard has been up and down but has been very good at times. I love the guy, one of my favorite players. But to name a LB signing who hasn’t hit a probowl as some major boon to our current team is faulty. Brown is obviously the better LB drafted in the 5th round. Who made more of a difference on our team last year? Brown. It isn’t arguable. That’s the point being made. Webster doesn’t really have any imprint on our team besides Lewan and Mariota. Walker is likely done and Woodyard is a backup to Brown. 

Well I agree that Woodyard isn't a top level player on the team and really never has been except during certain stretches. But more importantly, he's the leader of the defense and the QB of the defense and has contributed exponentially to the culture change. 

 

And yes, Brown is about ready to take over and is likely going to be the better player - he just has a little way to go on the mental side of things and we need someone on the field to call the defense. Brown isn't the kind of player that is going to be capable of that, but Evans can do it with time. 

 

I think Evans needs another year before he can lead that ILB group and line up the defense, so I think it'll be another year before we can really take Woodyard off the field. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

1 minute ago, tgo said:

Well I agree that Woodyard isn't a top level player on the team and really never has been except during certain stretches. But more importantly, he's the leader of the defense and the QB of the defense and has contributed exponentially to the culture change. 

 

And yes, Brown is about ready to take over and is likely going to be the better player - he just has a little way to go on the mental side of things and we need someone on the field to call the defense. Brown isn't the kind of player that is going to be capable of that, but Evans can do it with time. 

It’s going to be a transition. It’s why guys like Ryan and Byard (Robinson) are much more valuable to the team. I hear what you’re saying, but the fact is the culture change came under Mularkey and Robinson, not Webster. He may have brought in those players, but they underperformed under his coaches and his leadership. He gets no credence, and it’s why he’s a scout. 

[tgo]

8 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

It’s going to be a transition. It’s why guys like Ryan and Byard (Robinson) are much more valuable to the team. I hear what you’re saying, but the fact is the culture change came under Mularkey and Robinson, not Webster. He may have brought in those players, but they underperformed under his coaches and his leadership. He gets no credence, and it’s why he’s a scout. 

Well I'd say that he's a national scout instead of a GM now because of his overall lack of vision and strategy for building team, lack of a coherent evaluation strategy, and lack of ability to build an entire roster as a whole (or even one single position group really), rather than his failure to bring in *any* good players.

 

In hindsight, the nature of his "strategy" (if you want to call it that at all) is such that you'll hit on a few great players like Lewan in the draft or Delanie in FA, but will have a plethora of misses and will fail to build a successful team as a whole.

[Mythos27]

If the article were written a year ago it wouldn't be that bad. At that point we had just extended Daquan Jones (a Webster pick) and Avery Williamson was another Webster pick was playing pretty well for us and earned himself a nice little payday in NY. Zach Brown didn't pan out for us but has had a pretty good NFL career.  Overall, I like @tgo's nuance  here.  Webster had serious faults as a GM and certainly deserved to get fired but he did bring in some good players that helped ease our transition into the J-Rob era. That Poutassi pick though, Jesus christ, His own scout said on draft night that Poutassi should be a guard. It's "WTF!" stuff like this that got him canned. 

[BudsOilers]

I'm reading some of the revisionist history here and it's laughable pertaining to Webster's tenure in Nashville.

 

Personnel Fuckery

 

Webster came on board in 2010 as the VP of Player Personnel after having his hand in the Seattle debacle in 2009 with Jim Mora Jr. (under Tim Ruskell) that Carroll and Schneider fixed.  Reinfeldt hired him as they had worked in Seattle together.  Note this also was the time when Fisher was heading out the door. 

 

Once Fisher left, Webster's influence grew and there's no doubt he headed up the 2011 Draft.  It reeks of Webster, who was the lead guy in scouting and drafting Locker.  https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2011/3/30/2081218/2011-nfl-draft-jake-locker-titans . 

 

2012 - 2015 speaks for itself in terms of the drafting incompetence.  When only 2 guys out of 30 see a second contract here, it's telling and the early rounds are full of busts and disappointments.  Lewan was a good pick, without question, and he's developed into a very good LT.  Saying that, they could have drafted Aaron Donald, who is a HOF generational talent. 

 

Unrestricted Free Agency Adds

2012 - Signed Wimberly to a 5 year 35 M deal, Signed Hutchinson to a 3 year 16 M deal.

2013 - Signed Walker to a 4 year 17.5 M deal, Signed Levitre to a 6 year 46 M deal.  Sammy Lee Hill to a 3 year 11.4 M deal.  Signed Pollard, Fitspatrick, Shonn Greene to short term deals. 

2014 - Signed Dexter McCluskey to a 3 year 9 M deal.  Signed Michael Oher to a 4 year 20 M deal.  Woodyard to a 4 year 15.75 M deal.  Leon Washington, Al Woods, Shaun Phillips added on short term deals.

2015 - Signed DaNorris Searcy to a 4 year 23.75 M deal.  Signed Douglas 3 years 11.75 M.  Orapko 4 years 31 M.  Perrish Cox 3 years 15 M.  Fasano for 2 years.

 

Administrative Incompetence

 

I also read in here that Webster didn't want Whisenhunt.  Pretty fucking hilarious considering HE headed up the coaching search and all of the interviews.  Tommy Smith was a bystander in the process and at this time Webster was running the football operations.

 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-titans-gm-looking-for-right-fit-in-next-coach-2014jan05-story.html 

 

Quote

“I feel comfortable doing it,” Webster said. “I’m excited. I’m excited for the city. I’m excited for the Titans organization to move forward and find a coach who is going to be a good fit for Nashville and that they’re going to be proud of, and we’ll put a team on the field that they’re proud of.”

https://www.titansonline.com/news/ken-whisenhunt-on-board-with-titans-12427507

 

Quote

“This is a big day for this franchise,” Titans President/CEO Tommy Smith said in a release.  “Ken is a well-respected coach in this league and I am looking forward to seeing his vision become reality for this team. He has a history of building successful offenses and took Arizona to a Super Bowl as a head coach. We all share a common goal for this team and that is to build a consistent winner. I want to thank Ruston for his hard work in the process and the quality candidates that he brought in for interviews.”

Titans general manager Ruston Webster met with Whisenhunt in San Diego Friday as the fourth candidate that Tennessee formally interviewed last week to replace Mike Munchak, with whom the organization parted after three seasons as head coach.

“I have a lot of respect for Ken as a coach and as an offensive mind,” Webster said in a release. “The traits that stand out to me when identifying him as our next coach – he is intelligent, has a track record with quality offenses and head coaching success. I really enjoyed our meeting on Friday night in San Diego and we share similar philosophies about the game. Additionally, we have several mutual colleagues that have spoken highly to me about Ken both as a coach and as a person. I am excited about Ken joining us and the future of the Titans."