Ruston Webster's Legacy on the Current Team

[Number9]

3 hours ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I disagree. I think Mularkey changed the culture. The players you mentioned besides Lewan and Walker are slightly above replacement players, especially when looking at their contracts. 

I think Walker is one of the best leaders the team has ever had.

 

ETA:Mularkey was good, but Walker was already living the attitude you see in the Titans now.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Number9

[headhunter]

1 hour ago, tgo said:

Btw, Kuharsky's article should really have included Jurrell Casey since Webster was running the draft completely that year. 

I remember our DL coach at the time really loved Casey and said he was definitely targeted. 

[BudsOilers]

1 minute ago, headhunter said:

I remember our DL coach at the time really loved Casey and said he was definitely targeted. 

Given the ROI, I think Casey is the best draft choice Webster ever made.

[japan]

4 hours ago, tgo said:

Maybe Kuharsky is just an objective observer that's capable of nuance beyond just "Webster totally sucked and everything he did was absolute garbage" and the agenda driven commentary behind that line of thinking. 

 

It's possible to think that Webster was a truly bad GM while also discussing the few positive moves that he made. This concept is known as nuanced reasoning, something that many posters around here regularly struggle with. 

 

Maybe it's just that people are equating the article to Webster being better than Robinson and conflating the issue and just disagree with that false premise?

The whole thing is silly.  There is no comparison between Webster and JRob.  PK just throwing dart during the slow months.  And, when you consider that the team is about to move on from Webster's franchise QB (second) after his rookie deal, he may want to bury this article so no one knows it exists.

Edited April 3, 2019 by japan

[tgo]

2 minutes ago, japan said:

The whole thing is silly.  There is no comparison between Webster and JRob.  PK just throwing dart during the slow months.  And, when you consider that the team is about to move on from Webster's franchise QB after his rookie deal, he may want to bury this article so no one knows it exists.

There is in fact a specific comparison, as noted in the article. 

 

It's ok to discuss nuanced topics and to make comparisons that don't fit an overall narrative. And to dismiss nuanced discussion and comparisons as "silly" is intellectually dishonest and lazy. 

 

Pretty sure everyone here as well as Kuharsky realizes that Robinson is clearly a superior GM and Webster was a bad GM as has been REPEATEDLY stated. 

 

Kuharsky is not saying Webster is in the same zip code as Robinson or that Webster wasn't a bad GM. 

 

But let's not pretend like Robinson didn't walk into a situation with the hardest to find positions already filled. (And yes, *obviously* the rest of the roster was totally bereft of talent). 

[BudsOilers]

1 minute ago, tgo said:

There is in fact a specific comparison, as noted in the article. 

 

It's ok to discuss nuanced topics and to make comparisons that don't fit an overall narrative. And to dismiss nuanced discussion and comparisons as "silly" is intellectually dishonest and lazy. 

 

Pretty sure everyone here as well as Kuharsky realizes that Robinson is clearly a superior GM and Webster was a bad GM as has been REPEATEDLY stated. 

 

Kuharsky is not saying Webster is in the same zip code as Robinson or that Webster wasn't a bad GM. 

 

But let's not pretend like Robinson didn't walk into a situation with the hardest to find positions already filled. (And yes, *obviously* the rest of the roster was totally bereft of talent). 

Robinson inherited a legit LT in Lewan and Pro Bowlers at DL in Casey and Walker at TE. 

 

It's debatable that he inherited a franchise QB given what we know now. 

[tgo]

Just now, BudAdams said:

Robinson inherited a legit LT in Lewan and Pro Bowlers at DL in Casey and Walker at TE. 

 

It's debatable that he inherited a franchise QB given what we know now. 

It's debatable now, but at the time it was widely believed Mariota was the franchise QB for the foreseeable future and he had proven he could be from a skillset perspective. 

[japan]

11 minutes ago, tgo said:

There is in fact a specific comparison, as noted in the article. 

 

It's ok to discuss nuanced topics and to make comparisons that don't fit an overall narrative. And to dismiss nuanced discussion and comparisons as "silly" is intellectually dishonest and lazy. 

 

Pretty sure everyone here as well as Kuharsky realizes that Robinson is clearly a superior GM and Webster was a bad GM as has been REPEATEDLY stated. 

 

Kuharsky is not saying Webster is in the same zip code as Robinson or that Webster wasn't a bad GM. 

 

But let's not pretend like Robinson didn't walk into a situation with the hardest to find positions already filled. (And yes, *obviously* the rest of the roster was totally bereft of talent). 

I wasn't ripping you for posting the link and I normally think that PK is the best of the journalists following the team, but this article just seemed like filler.  We can only really evaluate one of JRob's draft classes, and even that is difficult considering Conklin had 1.5 great seasons and 1 poor season (0.5 season due to injury and 0.5 season where he was bad.)

[japan]

3 minutes ago, tgo said:

It's debatable now, but at the time it was widely believed Mariota was the franchise QB for the foreseeable future and he had proven he could be from a skillset perspective. 

And JRob did everything in his power to make Mariota work out as the franchise QB.  Guy just hasn't done it.

[BudsOilers]

True but one can argue that Mariota not being that guy is a big killer given the QB options the team had with the #1 overall pick in 2016 and the ability to draft Mahomes in 2017.

[japan]

1 minute ago, BudAdams said:

True but one can argue that Mariota not being that guy is a big killer given the QB options the team had with the #1 overall pick in 2016 and the ability to draft Mahomes in 2017.

I mean, come on. 

[tgo]

4 minutes ago, japan said:

I wasn't ripping you for posting the link and I normally think that PK is the best of the journalists following the team, but this article just seemed like filler.  We can only really evaluate one of JRob's draft classes, and even that is difficult considering Conklin had 1.5 great seasons and 1 poor season (0.5 season due to injury and 0.5 season where he was bad.)

Haha well I'll certainly give you that - that the article is pretty much filler. 

[MIKE75]

2012 thru 2015 we had 4 straight losing seasons. Before and since during the Titans 20 year history they never had more than 2 losing seasons in a row. 2012 was Webster's official start year as GM and it ended in 2015 so on paper he was the only GM of our 4 since 1999 who did not have a winning season,a playoff berth or leave with a winning mark as GM.

 

1999 thru 2011 the Titans had 7 winning seasons,6 playoff berths,3 13 win seasons,3 division titles,2 AFC Championship appearances,1 AFC Title,1 Super Bowl appearance AND the Titans were 7th overall of 32 teams in winning percentage winning 119 games during that span. There were 2 GM's during this time Floyd Reese 1999-2006 and Mike Reinfeldt 2007-2011.

 

2016 thru 2018 we have had 3 winning seasons in a row and a playoff win and one GM Jon Robinson. During this three year stretch the Titans have won 27 games and are 1 game from being in the top 10 in wins during this time.

 

Looking at the first 20 seasons 1999 thru 2018 there was one bad stretch the 4 year period 2012 thru 2015 most of which i think is because of Jake Locker and the poor state of the QB position. Looking back i wonder if they might've fared better keeping Matt Hasselbeck he had a winning year in 2011 played all 16 games throwing for 4,000 yards then went on to do well in Indy.

[BudsOilers]

22 minutes ago, MIKE75 said:

Looking at the first 20 seasons 1999 thru 2018 there was one bad stretch the 4 year period 2012 thru 2015 most of which i think is because of Jake Locker and the poor state of the QB position. Looking back i wonder if they might've fared better keeping Matt Hasselbeck he had a winning year in 2011 played all 16 games throwing for 4,000 yards then went on to do well in Indy.

The Titans were among the elite from 1999-2000 and 2002-2003 and then they had the 2008 year where Haynesworth and CJ were dominant.  In those 5 seasons, they were legitimate SB contenders and you can argue that they underachieved with only one losing SB appearance.  Outside of that, the Titans have either been bad (2004-2006, 2014-2015) or mediocre.

 

As for tying Webster's failure solely on the Locker era, that completely ignores how horrible the drafting and FA moves were across the roster beyond the QB.  As for Hasselbeck, he was on his last legs as a starter in 2011.

[BudsOilers]

Part of the GM's job is to navigate the politics of ownership, coaches, and scouting to build a winning team.  It wasn't all Webster's fault but at the end of the day his results were horrible and he had a huge hand in it.  His draft and FA records not to mention the on the field product/results cannot be adequately defended.

 

As for the Tommie Smith ownership tenure, he basically had Webster running the football side and was convinced he was going to turn it around until Amy and Ken IV stepped in.  The GM has to provide vision and leadership and he had none.  There's absolutely no chance he would have turned things around here.  None.