pat Posted July 15, 2017 Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Justafan said: Labor force participation rate only counts adults 18-65. Actually, you are right the labor force participation rate largely excludes children. A significant portion of that drop is the rise of the gig economy. "Independent contractors" are under counted http://www.forbes.com/sites/elainepofeldt/2016/10/10/mckinsey-study-independent-workforce-is-bigger-than-official-data-shows-in-u-s-europe/ These are people working, paying taxes, but without access to healthcare. The whole employer based paradigm falls apart when employers choose contractors over employees. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted July 15, 2017 Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 4 hours ago, Titans279 said: The ACA itself was a bit of a compromise. It's not the bill that the "extremist" Dems would want. Despite the GOP rhetoric for the past 8 years I wouldn't call it an extreme bill. There was not much substantial bipartisan work on the actual bill, but the bill in concept isn't the most liberal option. Even within the structure of the more moderate bill the things that those on the left would have liked, like the public option, dropped because of the need to compromise with moderate Democrats (who eventually got voted out of jobs) and Independents like Joe Lieberman (who became a Trump supporter). Those left of center are not going to just stop pushing for access to health care for all. The failure of the ACA to stick is actually going to embolden those "extremists" on the left because: A. It didn't work as well as promised. B. It's not as popular with people as promised. C. It was constantly attacked as socialist by the GOP (despite being the more moderate plan). D. The industries Dems worked so hard to get the support of are not doing anything to defend the law. (Dems worked very hard to get insurers/providers on board with the ACA, and they mostly were). The more extreme Dems will naturally think their ideas are better than the ACA anyway. Now that the more moderate Dem approach has failed, you'll see a renewed vigor in pushing for the more leftwing health care ideas (particularly in 2020...). Good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted July 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Now they won't be able to avoid the CBO score. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
begooode Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, TennesseeTuxedo said: They should leave healthcare as it is. Then the flakes will have nothing to bitch about right healthcare? Anything that's been universally assessed as a 'complete disaster' should be relatively easy to fix, with those who accomplish it looking like heroes, yes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaTitan Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 21 hours ago, Titans279 said: Now they won't be able to avoid the CBO score. The timing of this surgery is odd given McConnell'Secret' extension and the fact that McCains vote would tip the scales. mCCain is on record that he would vote in support, but he also hates Trump.... I'm sceptical.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaTitan Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Sorry, but after seeing this, I'm convinced that McCain is sticking it to Trump and I think its hilarious. There is no way this is just a coincidence. http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-brain-surgery-blood-clot-risks-consequences-2017-7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted July 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Instead of just coming out against the bill thus killing it, he gave himself a stroke which required opening his skull to treat and takes weeks of recovery. What a maverick! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 Bill blocked at this time. Sen Lee and Sen Moran came out against the proposal. They seemed to not want tweaks but a completely different bill. Both think the bill does not go far enough to repealing the ACA and both do not like the closed-door building of the bill. Sen Moran actually called for a whole new process. So it does not sound like they would accept tweaks, instead wanting a whole new bill. Also, it seems they will not accept closed-door proceeding for a new bill. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/17/obamacare-senators-turn-on-mcconnell-240646 “In addition to not repealing all of the Obamacare taxes, it doesn’t go far enough in lowering premiums for middle class families; nor does it create enough free space from the most costly Obamacare regulations," Lee said of the Senate legislation. Moran criticized the closed-door process for developing the bill and criticized the legislation for not repealing the entire 2010 health law. “We should not put our stamp of approval on bad policy,” he said in a statement. “We must now start fresh with an open legislative process to develop innovative solutions that provide greater personal choice, protections for pre-existing conditions, increased access and lower overall costs for Kansans.” Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/politics/mcconell-repreal-and-replace-obamacare-not-successful/index.html Sen. Collins, who voted against the repeal in 2015, says no on current repeal. Sen. Capito, who I assume voted for it in 2015 (Sen. Collins is only one currently in office who voted against it in 2015), has come out against the current repeal. That leaves just one more no vote to kill it. Sen. McCain, who yesterday said he wants a bi-partisan approach, is still away from the Senate, so even if planned to go against his recent comments to vote yes, he will not be voting if the vote is this week. Therefore in my opinion, if Sen. McConnell plans a vote this week, that means he is doing it purely for procedural reasons and does not want/expect it to pass as there would be only 49 yes votes at most under that scenario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 On 7/15/2017 at 5:58 AM, Titans279 said: The ACA itself was a bit of a compromise. It's not the bill that the "extremist" Dems would want. Despite the GOP rhetoric for the past 8 years I wouldn't call it an extreme bill. There was not much substantial bipartisan work on the actual bill, but the bill in concept isn't the most liberal option. Even within the structure of the more moderate bill the things that those on the left would have liked, like the public option, dropped because of the need to compromise with moderate Democrats (who eventually got voted out of jobs) and Independents like Joe Lieberman (who became a Trump supporter). Those left of center are not going to just stop pushing for access to health care for all. The failure of the ACA to stick is actually going to embolden those "extremists" on the left because: A. It didn't work as well as promised. B. It's not as popular with people as promised. C. It was constantly attacked as socialist by the GOP (despite being the more moderate plan). D. The industries Dems worked so hard to get the support of are not doing anything to defend the law. (Dems worked very hard to get insurers/providers on board with the ACA, and they mostly were). The more extreme Dems will naturally think their ideas are better than the ACA anyway. Now that the more moderate Dem approach has failed, you'll see a renewed vigor in pushing for the more leftwing health care ideas (particularly in 2020...). I think it's a given that Obamacare is not the bill Obama would have wanted. Makes you realize how importing sales and marketing is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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