Police Officer Shot During Traffic Stop in St. Louis

[Jonboy]

BALLWIN, MO (KTVI)- Authorities are investigating after a police officer was shot during a traffic stop Friday morning in west St. Louis County. It happened shortly before 11 a.m. near the 300 block of New Ballwin Road. According to our partners at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the wound was in the neck.

http://fox2now.com/2016/07/08/report-officer-shot-in-ballwin-manhunt-underway/

[Number9]

This is not good.  First, if you are black or have black friends, please explain to them this is wrong.  It also could end up with a lot of innocent black people as well as whites getting killed.  

The police are here to protect us.  No matter what happened, do not give police any reason to feel threatened.  Unjustified shooting is wrong, but @Soxcat has pointed out many of these shooting are justified.  This shooting of the police is a common occurrence that does not make national news.  It's time for calm and reasoned response on both sides.  It's wrong to shoot police in Dallas for something that happened in LA or anywhere even if it happened in Dallas.

There are too many weapons floating around in this country for people to applaud any unlawful shooting.  Please reason with your associates.  We as a nation do not need a race war.  Violence will never end violence.

 

[Denali]

I will probably get slammed for this, but I'm going to say it anyway.

Perhaps if enough incidents like the one in Dallas and this one keep happening, the police will begin to rethink how they conduct themselves when dealing with black people.  Yes, it is 1000% wrong to be killing police officers, but still, what will it take to get through to them? 

Chest-thumping about how wrong it is for innocent police officers to be killed without addressing the underlying problem is not going to fix things.

Are marches really going to fix the problem.  Do you really think the police give a rats ass about a bunch of people marching in protest?  Cops will be cops, until they can't.  Yes, independent oversight could also fix the problem, but I don't see any politicians pushing for that.

Seriously.  What's the answer?

[wiscotitansfan]

1 minute ago, Denali said:

I will probably get slammed for this, but I'm going to say it anyway.

Perhaps if enough incidents like the one in Dallas and this one keep happening, the police will begin to rethink how they conduct themselves when dealing with black people.  Yes, it is 1000% wrong to be killing police officers, but still, what will it take to get through to them? 

Chest-thumping about how wrong it is for innocent police officers to be killed without addressing the underlying problem is not going to fix things.

Are marches really going to fix the problem.  Do you really think the police give a rats ass about a bunch of people marching in protest?  Cops will be cops, until they can't.  Yes, independent oversight could also fix the problem, but I don't see any politicians pushing for that.

Seriously.  What's the answer?

I was thinking this too this morning. Maybe it just has to get that bad where cops are too scared to pull this type of shit. The problem though is there have never been any real actions taken to discipline cops in any sense of the word so IMO it doesn't necessarily need to have that trajectory so soon.

And are scared cops better for society? Are cops treating their job like it's a war better for society? I think both those are terrible for many reasons but the biggest one is that it would attract even more gun happy power hungry people who go into the job with the mindset that even more aggression is necessary.

[Jonboy]

59 minutes ago, Denali said:

Perhaps if enough incidents like the one in Dallas and this one keep happening, the police will begin to rethink how they conduct themselves when dealing with black people.  Yes, it is 1000% wrong to be killing police officers, but still, what will it take to get through to them? 

No. Just no. That's not how human nature works man. There is no way this makes things better. It makes them 10x worse. The more this happens, the more police officers will feel the need to approach any vehicle with one hand on their weapon, or even worse, already drawn.

59 minutes ago, Denali said:

Are marches really going to fix the problem.  Do you really think the police give a rats ass about a bunch of people marching in protest?  Cops will be cops, until they can't.  Yes, independent oversight could also fix the problem, but I don't see any politicians pushing for that.

You should read about the events in Dallas leading up to this. The Dallas PD has actually made great strides in this area and were truly working hand-in-hand with BLM to ensure a peaceful protest. They were even livestreaming and tweeting out pictures of the events. Officers smiling and taking pics with the peaceful protesters.

Absolutely, yes; I think peaceful, non-violent actions can truly change things and improve the world for the better. We sure do have a heck of a long way to go though. 

[Downtown]

 If the police officers who commit crimes were to be properly punished, this wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue. But they aren't punished. They are hidden. So, radical citizens take it upon themselves to stand up and fight the oppressor... with guess what, guns!!! Isn't this what every pro-gun conservative wants?!? Isn't this what all of you pro-gun nuts are preaching to happen?!? I've heard the argument that guns are necessary so that citizens can stand up to their government and fight against injustice. Is this not in some sense what is happening? Corrupt police and now people taking arms to fight back? 

Is the "guns are necessary to stand up against government" argument only relevant when it suits the conservative agenda? @Little Earl @Soxcat @PepperTime are probably very sad that police officers lost their lives, but are super happy that citizens are loading their guns and fighting back!! 

 

[wiscotitansfan]

1 minute ago, Downtown said:

 If the police officers who commit crimes were to be properly punished, this wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue. But they aren't punished. They are hidden.

Exactly. The blind protection of police is and always will be the greatest determining factor in how much the bad apples are able to get away with.... Because yes, we are specifically at this point because the bad apples of their respective community.

[Legaltitan]

2 minutes ago, Downtown said:

 If the police officers who commit crimes were to be properly punished, this wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue. But they aren't punished. They are hidden. So, radical citizens take it upon themselves to stand up and fight the oppressor... with guess what, guns!!! Isn't this what every pro-gun conservative wants?!? Isn't this what all of you pro-gun nuts are preaching to happen?!? I've heard the argument that guns are necessary so that citizens can stand up to their government and fight against injustice. Is this not in some sense what is happening? Corrupt police and now people taking arms to fight back? 

Mind = blown.

Great point.

Again, for p[urposes of clarity, I agree with this point from a Devil's adevocate standpoint.  By no means to I agree it makes sense for citizens to take justice into their own hands visa vie the police.

But damn did you make one hell of a powerful point.

[Denali]

45 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

You should read about the events in Dallas leading up to this. The Dallas PD has actually made great strides in this area and were truly working hand-in-hand with BLM to ensure a peaceful protest. They were even livestreaming and tweeting out pictures of the events. Officers smiling and taking pics with the peaceful protesters.

Absolutely, yes; I think peaceful, non-violent actions can truly change things and improve the world for the better. We sure do have a heck of a long way to go though. 

I respect the Dallas PD for encouraging the protest, and for participating in community outreach programs, but how does that address their behavior when dealing with black people?  Without specifically addressing that issue, their participation is relegated to just being a bunch of PR.  The Dallas area PD has had a terrible history.  A cultural change within the PD itself is what is needed. (FWIW, I used to live in downtown Dallas about a mile from where the incident took place).

[WG53]

3 hours ago, SoylentGreen said:

After reviewing all the still shots in this report, WG52-1/2 determined that the suspect was clearly just strolling through the neighborhood looking for the ice cream truck when he was jumped by unknown assailants claiming to be police officers.  WG52-1/2 did confirm he could see the outline of the "pistol in his pocket" and that he was sure the innocent citizen had a reason for carrying such a "weapon".

This is almost as bad as jamal trying to talk shit.

You are a fucking pathetic moron.

[Downtown]

2 hours ago, Legaltitan said:

But damn did you make one hell of a powerful point.

And the silence is deafening...

[Downtown]

13 minutes ago, SoylentGreen said:

Can you give an example of officers committing crimes, being convicted and not being properly punished?

The problem is that we can't give examples of officers committing crimes and then being convicted. If you're claiming there isn't evidence of officers committing crimes, then you either haven't heard of the internet or aren't watching the news. 

[wiscotitansfan]

14 minutes ago, SoylentGreen said:

Can you give an example of officers committing crimes, being convicted and not being properly punished?

Are you serious? You can't think of any death from a cop that wasn't warranted? You're worth talking to even less than I thought before if you think every single one has been "in self defense" or because they've felt too "threatened".

When they do get tried correctly the punishment is getting fired at worst. The only one I can think of that was fair was the cop who would pull women over and force them to give him blowjobs and shit like that.

[Downtown]

12 minutes ago, SoylentGreen said:

Nope.  We own guns for defensive purposes.  If we are attacked, we will defend ourselves.  These policemen didn't attack anyone--they were actually looking after the well-being of the protesters.  We consider the police to be the thin blue line between us and the animals out there.  Like the one (or ones) that shot the officers.

That's exactly what is happening here. 

[Downtown]

4 minutes ago, SoylentGreen said:

I asked a straight-forward question about a statement you made.  If you have no evidence, just say so.

 

 

Oh boy. Are you really this daft? The evidence actually is the lack of evidence. There currently aren't many examples of American police officers being tried criminally and convicted for their violent crimes and the outrage comes from recent shootings caught on camera (Michael Brown as example) where the officers aren't charged. That these police officers aren't tried in the court of law for their crimes is the primary reason for citizens taking to arms. Legal action has been taken away from them. The community is as you say "under attack." Do you not understand this or are you trying to conveniently avoid the topic?